Why does Sage punish you for using your healing spells?

If you feel like you're being punished and don't like to deal damage to heal then mayhap WHM, AST and/or SCH might be more to your licking.

Sage is a really great healer. But, the entire "do damage to heal" mechanic is sorely not as advertised. The only skill which really shines in this regard is Pneuma.

In reality, Kardion behaves more like Embrace from the Scholar Faerie Pet. Kardion is essentially a low HoT entirely dependent upon your actions per second while DPSing as a sage.

However, I adore the Sage.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Then don't. Kardia's healing is crap. It's not going to save your tank. It's an extremely low heal that shouldn't be relied upon after L30. You're a healer.. Use your heals.

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Kardia is your regen and has plenty of use beyond level 30. You can’t always rely upon it or trash fights, but during boss fights in all dungeons, I barely have to use any other forms of healing on a tank. My oGCDs are primarily for mana or to heal the DPS.

Protip for 8-man content: Kardia buffs and HoTs stack. So if you end up with double SGE, then both of you can apply Kardia to the MT for double the HoT ticks. There are so many SGEs that put it on the OT that acts as a blue DPS the entire fight and never takes a lick of damage, and that is such a waste. There aren’t enough fights were both tanks are taking autos at the same time, so 9 times out of 10, you can both apply Kardia to the same target.

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Sage's Kardia triggers a single heal on a single target for a low potency upon successful spell cast of a damaging attack. It does not scale with the amount of damage you deal, which means that it's just a rolling HoT while you're dealing damage.

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And you are underestimating the power of HoTs. While Kardia shouldn’t be relied upon to solely heal a tank, you aren’t considering the worth of a regen tick.

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Otherwise it's not in use. If your party needs a heal, stop dpsing for a second and heal your party like you're supposed to. Sage is NOT a dps healer. You're a healer that has a temporary HoT on a single target while dealing damage.

You should essentially play your Sage like you do your White Mage; except your HoT spell that you'd spread around is a shield instead. Think of it like that and ignore Kardia all together. Put it on your tank and forget it's even there. Don't rely on it, don't try to maximize it's effects.. It's not going to save your tank.

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Kardia should almost always be in use because there are very few fights where you have to actively stop damage to heal. Even with people eating stuff they shouldn’t be, you should be using oGCDs over GCD healing spells, which means your GCDs are being spent on damage.

And no, you do not play SGE as you do a WHM. WHM has the unfortunate luck of being the “GCD healer” in this game, as most of its heals are not oGCD. Conversely, SGE’s primary heals are supposed to be your oGCD abilities that use up Addersgall stacks. Telling a person to “play SGE like you do WHM” is just wrong because SGE is not a WHM. Barrier versus regen healer aside.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Apply shields to your tank.. All the time. Use your MP, you have a lot of it and you get a lot of it back simply from casting your OCGD's. Every single one of your OGCD's gives you 700 MP. You also have lucid dreaming.

When your Eukrasian Diagnosis expires, simply put another one on. Don't be afraid to spend your MP, that's why you have it. Apply the shield. When it breaks, apply it again.

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Do not do this. Spamming your single-target shield is a last resort mechanic for SGE. You burn through Addersgall stacks first and foremost while weaving in offensives for Kardia ticks. Addersgall stacks take 20 seconds to gain, and you have Rhizomata at the higher levels to grant you one every 90 seconds. You use them first. Spamming your GCD shield is suboptimal and a resource waste.

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On top of that, don't sleep on Physis (II), Holos and Pepsis. They're really good spells, and I rarely see other Sage's using them.

If you need burst, cast Diagnosis then Eukrasian Diagnosis, Pepsis, Taurochole/Druochole and then another Eukrasian Diagnosis. Do that quickly and you'll top your tank up no problem. At that point you just have to keep your shield up. Toss Haima out if you need to, and use Kerachole when necessary.

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The preferred order of healing I do for dungeon pulls is:

Pre-pull Eukrasian Diagnosis on the tank > I will refresh this while running for Toxikon stacks while using Dyskrasia on the mobs > Kerachole for mitigation / HoT + mitigation at levels 78 and above > Taurochole + Haima after Kerachole wears off and the tank is around 50% HP > Druochole as needed (usually I only have to use these twice if I have a tank that knows what defensives are, but more if I get one that thinks cooldowns are to be saved for the bosses). Most trash packs should die before I have to resort to another Kerachole or using excessive Druochole stacks if the DPS are pressing their AOE buttons. For a second pull, I combined Taurochole with Panhaima at 80+, since it serves almost the same purpose. There is no “if you need to” with Haima or Panhaima. Both of them are incredibly good, and you should have either one up for every dungeon pull. There are only a few pulls off the top of my head where I’ve had to resort to using more E. Diagnosis than I want (last pull before the last boss in Tower of Zot comes to mind), but the vast majority I can easily get away with using the combinations above, and barely have to use E. Diagnosis outside of pre-pull/running with the tank.

Unless I have a tank made of paper, I rarely have to do much beyond this. Pre-HoT Kerachole, I substitute Physis in its place as my HoT while using Kerachole for the auto mitigation. If the pull is taking longer to die, then I use Holos for a small heal + mitigation on the tank. Krasis if I want to boost my oGCDs. In 90 content, there should be at least one pull between bosses for you to Zoe + Pneuma, which is your strongest heal. I tend to time them around the spicer pulls in the 90 MSQ dungeon. The two Expert dungeons I just throw them wherever because they hit like wet noodles. Like most Expert dungeons tend to do.

I’ll take sage over every other healer right now, due to the fact it’s actually interesting to play. And no you don’t spam your single target or aoe shield because you’ll eat your mp

Just to add to that, I had a tank massive pull Dohn Mheg and sage felt about the same as whm does in terms of handling damage and I’m about 400 ilevel on sage right now and I wasn’t try harding on dps either - mainly because incoming damage is quite high in that dungeon so it required more healing.

It's just another way to play a healer class.

Options, you got 3 others.

I'm a WHM main since the start of ARR and after unlocking Sage, I felt like @_@... Its confusing and strange, people have tried to help me understand it but I am probably going to have to start Sage at level 16 and work up from there, trying to figure out its kit. Really wish there was a good tutorial for the job as its so different from anything I have every played in the game.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Sage is meant to be different. It’s not meant to be a WHM clone. Personally, I like being rewarded for dealing damage as a healer—there’s little point in not trying to deal damage when you aren’t trying to heal. And Sage’s personal damage is monstrous.

Sage’s primary heals come from it’s Addersgall stacks, not from Diagnosis/Prognosis or their Eukrasian versions. All of these heals can be weaved between Dosis casts. For a tank in dungeon pulls, Taurochole + Haima is god-tier—and then your passive regen from Kardia will keep them steady in between weaving Druochole on them. On pulls where you don’t have Haima, you can use Panhaima if you’re 80+. It serves the same purpose. Kerachole is 10% damage mitigation, and after level 78 it gains a regen and is absolutely broken—pop it at the start of a pull for regen+mitigation. You can use Physis II to give the tank a regen every 60 seconds on top of your Kardia ticks. At 86, you gain Krasis, which is Nature’s Minne on a 60s CD. Granted, I think you get it a bit too late, but it’s still useful on a tank; and it affects the healing potency of your oGCDs.

If you are reduced to spamming GCDs (Eukrasian Diagnosis is better than Diagnosis, which is less potent than Cure I and unusable in any higher level dungeon) on the tank, then you have an issue that isn’t even related to Sage. Either your tank isn’t popping defensives, or your DPS are failing to kill trash packs fast enough (likely from not AOEing). Sage may have a harder time than other healers in dungeons due to lack of burst healing, but it isn’t bad.


If you don’t like the damage mechanic, then you are free to play the other three healers. But don’t ask to have it removed or altered for those of us who actually like it.

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It... It's going to take me time to learn all this as I'm too used to White Mage style.

I can see that they really did succeed in making a Healer job that would appeal to DPS Job mainers.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I'm a WHM main since the start of ARR and after unlocking Sage, I felt like @_@... Its confusing and strange, people have tried to help me understand it but I am probably going to have to start Sage at level 16 and work up from there, trying to figure out its kit. Really wish there was a good tutorial for the job as its so different from anything I have every played in the game.

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Sage gameplay is basically this: You stick kardia on the tank, apply your DoT and then start spamming dosis. In between each dosis cast, you use one of your off-GCD mitigation/regen/shield skills. Mitigation + Regen/shield makes it possible for you to cover much of the healing you need with kardia and you have off-GCD options for spot healing where needed as well while continuing to spam dosis.

Dosis spam is the foundation of it all. Keep your dosis (or your AoE attack) rolling and hit your oGCDs in-between, that's it really. Learning how to play the class comes down to figuring out which oGCDs you want to use when.

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

Why does sage punish you for using healing spells? The way Kardion works is that you ONLY heal when you cast a damage spell. No other healer works like that or has their healing tied to their damage. It's such an unnecessary mechanic that incentivizes healers to make Suboptimal plays. As a former White Mage player (let's not get into the thin air nerfs, shall we) it's incredibly frustrating that sqenix ignores what gameplay feels like for healers. Just make kardion work whenever you cast ANY gcd. I shouldn't be forced to spam damage moves when my tank is dying.

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Go back to Whm if you dont like how they created this new class with a new playstyle. Sage is an alternative to sch, not whm.