Are some jobs 'too feminine' in aesthetics?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Well it's not other people telling them they can't dress in caster robes. It's them complaining that a caster in caster robes is apparently awful simply because the caster is male. Doesn't make any sense to me.

---

I doubt there would be such complaints if there were actually more options for them beyond robes, plenty women have similar complaints about the casting and healing gear not just the men.. myself included. It's less a male caster in robes sucks more WHY can I ONLY be in robes!? A few of the robes I have seen on males can make them look pretty frumpy or just swallows them whole (see Scylla's robe of healing), they just a big line of fabric that is fairly dull to look at. Others just look comical, a hrothy in lvl 50 whm gear just looks weird to me! xD

Some artwork I have seen people come up with for caster/healer fits the classic style but ALSO suits a male figure nicely. For example, (some of the men might disagree but imo this one is a LOT better than many of the robe's you currently have!) These are for the contest I believe, some really good designs props to the people who put in a design!
https://i.imgur.com/sJd3rWT.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/wBcc54F.jpeg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wasselin

There is nothing inherently feminine about a flowing dress or anything about it that naturally fits or flatters a woman and not a man, we've assigned "dress" as a feminine because in western culture for recent history only women wear dresses/robes.

I'm all for more options, but actually making the same piece of gear gendered so it looks different on men and women takes options away it doesn't add them.

---

Eh. There's a reason there's unisex T shirts and then womens' cut T shirts. One is meant to fit the curves of a specific body type.

I'm not saying don't wear what you like of course. And unisex robes and such do exist. But pretending women's clothing is never tailored to fit the features of a specific body type... well, just isn't true.

Yeah! Damn these hearts! Everyone knows guys don't have hearts. And feelings! And hate flowers!

OP is the living example why you shouldn't hide in the Crystal Tower, guess the Exarch took her(?) worldviews with himself into the last century.

There are a LOT of robes, but there are other options as well.

Part of the reason that robes are so huge, and don't have a slimmer silhouette is because of clipping. That first image looks great, but would would it look like from behind as your character is running? Most likely your legs would clip through it. The back of the robe has to be designed in a way so that while running characters legs don't clip through the back of it, while at the same time it looks like it's hanging down and not glued to the back of your legs.

The bottom one looks great, but there is gear for healers that does have that same silhouette (Even though it doesn't look quite the same).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wasselin

There is nothing inherently feminine about a flowing dress or anything about it that naturally fits or flatters a woman and not a man, we've assigned "dress" as a feminine because in western culture for recent history only women wear dresses/robes.

I'm all for more options, but actually making the same piece of gear gendered so it looks different on men and women takes options away it doesn't add them.

---

Lets say you did remove any sort of gender fit from the clothes. If you were to put a robe that fit a typical male on me ykno how it would fit? It would be HELLA tight round my bust and then probably flow down in a swathe and swallow me whole covering the rest of my figure, I guess you gave me another option.. but it also sucks aesthetically imo. Big bewbies and wider hips are feminine, women have them. It is feminine. There is nothing wrong with clothing suiting one side better than the other, we can acknowledge that it can also be worn by males but not every male DESIRES to do so. Some would like the option to have extra choices beyond a robe. Simple as that.

You can argue all you want that nothing is inherently anything, perception is what we make it. But through history men and women have had different attire, more recently we are bridging that gap and its great that people can express themselves more freely but the fact is esp in modern clothing, some things were made for a specific gender in mind and it shows. The frills on the side of the WHM attire is very much a more feminine style, I would bet they started that concept art on a female character then made it fit to a male body type afterwards. I would love for my healer and caster to have less SKIRTS since the female version of a lot of glamour ends up as some sort of skirt when I would rather trousers, a change is nice. Give us the option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wasselin

There are a LOT of robes, but there are other options as well.

Part of the reason that robes are so huge, and don't have a slimmer silhouette is because of clipping. That first image looks great, but would would it look like from behind as your character is running? Most likely your legs would clip through it. The back of the robe has to be designed in a way so that while running characters legs don't clip through the back of it, while at the same time it looks like it's hanging down and not glued to the back of your legs.

The bottom one looks great, but there is gear for healers that does have that same silhouette (Even though it doesn't look quite the same).

---

I can get that arguement, but also there is sooo much already that clips as you run anyway it feels like a rather moot point honestly. Or even many hairstyles ruining some very lovely high collars.. q.q

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wasselin

There is nothing inherently feminine about a flowing dress or anything about it that naturally fits or flatters a woman and not a man, we've assigned "dress" as a feminine because in western culture for recent history only women wear dresses/robes.

I'm all for more options, but actually making the same piece of gear gendered so it looks different on men and women takes options away it doesn't add them.

---

I disagree, I think by making the same piece of gear look different and appeal to majority of the audience of that gender is indeed the best solution. I think compromises need to be made and the dev team has done an excellent job and continues to work at making some pieces traditionally made for one gender equipable by both whenever they see fit and or have a chance.

Now if they had unlimited resources of course it would be great, but, noone has unlimited resources, and so mass appeal with small concessions is the best course of action, and imo, apparently the one they have taken. If I'm being honest if I chose to fantasia into a male character I would like to have lots of traditionally cool male looking armor, instead of all my female miqote glams available but in a male body.

I do hope the conventional male attires get more representation in this game because I also agree it's over feminized sometimes. While I love it, because im a female miqote, I can also see it is objectively unfair to traditional guys who just want to be a dude, wearing stereotypical dude things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

And?

We see Urianger rocking the Astrologan dress in the ShB opening cinematic and Alphinaud well is really easy to confuse with his sister... Seems they're both comfortable doing woman's work.

---

If you think Urianger looks femme in his astrologian outfit, I don't really know what to tell you. That is literally the exact moment when Urianger suddenly becomes hot.

I feel like two things are being conflated here: how clothing fits and it's style. I'm not saying gear shouldn't be tailored to our characters and actually fit them. Changing a top so it fits the chest of your character is not necessarily a change in style.

The frills on the side of the White Mage gear for endwalker though has nothing to do with body type and I would argue that there is nothing inherently "feminine" about frills. Men have shirts that have the same frills/ruffles right down the front and they aren't considered feminine. At different points in history that would be the norm for men's attire.

Should the male version of the white mage artifact armor not include the frills in order to suit those who think they are too feminine? Should neither the version for male character or female characters have the frills? What I'm saying is if you take the frills away because some think they are too feminine you are taking choice away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wasselin

I feel like two things are being conflated here: how clothing fits and it's style. I'm not saying gear shouldn't be tailored to our characters and actually fit them. Changing a top so it fits the chest of your character is not necessarily a change in style.

The frills on the side of the White Mage gear for endwalker though has nothing to do with body type and I would argue that there is nothing inherently "feminine" about frills. Men have shirts that have the same frills/ruffles right down the front and they aren't considered feminine. At different points in history that would be the norm for men's attire.

Should the male version of the white mage artifact armor not include the frills in order to suit those who think they are too feminine? Should neither the version for male character or female characters have the frills? What I'm saying is if you take the frills away because some think they are too feminine you are taking choice away.

---

Or how about, stay with me now, we even it out and give less robes/dresses/skirts for healers and casters and more jackets and trousers like people are asking for. Which includes women! They want pants too! While ShB has been better about healer and caster gear it is still very one sided rather than balanced. This is explicitly true when it comes to the AF gear. WHM is almost always some kind of Nun or dress styled outfit. Which could look good on a male character, but unless you are a male miq'ote (And like the male viera will be able to pull it off too) it just doesn't fit you. A male Au Ra in the ShB or SB AF gear just looks ridiculous. Like straight up comical. I doubt there would be half of the complaints if these types of outfits were actually tailored to the male bodies but unfortunately many of them are not, or if they are they aren't done right for all of the male models.

Edit: Specifically talking about the WHM AF gear. The main topic is about that, but just thought I would clarify.