Mentor abuse DC on purpose

I love how ya'll are arguing that if SE just put more into for mentorship it'll get better. But none of ya'll even acknowledge the fact ya'll will be arguing the same idea even if SE put more into mentorship than all of their projects, including ffxiv, without any real change. You guys want an unattainable goal for mentorship. You want a beyond perfect playerbase and any minor problem is the scapegoats fault, mentors.

This thread is exactly why I don't wear my symbol. Sargatanas is the exception it seems. Our NN is actually mostly civil, and we have a rule that its for helping sprouts first and chat second. I've personally seen sprouts ask questions and the chatter stops for a minute while they're answered. I've also seen mentors giving away free glams and offering to craft things for sprouts. 100K gil for an item is a lot for a sprout, and pocket change for many of us, and there are many mentor's on Sarg who like making a sprout's day by handing them a shiny. The main defense is that NN being Barrens chat as a secondary function gets more mentors to actually look at the channel, and it works. But while the people in the chat know this, the people outside don't, which is why I don't wear the symbol.

The system itself is not necessarily flawed. It works as intended on Sargatanas, and I believe on a few other servers as well. We need to look at these servers and determine what we're doing that you guys aren't, or vice versa.

Also, mentor roulette should not have EX trials. You shouldn't be going into those things with a bunch of sprouts. But until they change it, you accept the possibility that you'll get one when you queue. Don't like it? Don't take mentor roulette.

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Originally Posted by Eien713

I have no issue with Ex trials themselves. My issue is with the people who queue for them, whether they're clueless and don't know any better, expect these trials to be a faceroll and bail when it turns out they need to actually make an effort, people who don't look up a guide beforehand (which saves time and spares a poor mentor from typing), or people who don't read chat or just can't follow instructions for whatever reason (in the latter case, PF would provide them with a better experience). I'll gladly spend 1 hour wiping in an Ex trial if people are trying their best and making an effort (though I'd ideally prefer to be mentally prepared for this beforehand, but oh well).

TLDR: Why are mentors the only ones burdened with responsibility when it comes to Ex trials? Why do people overlook the fact that the people queuing for those trials in DF are a huge part of the reason why things are the way they are now?

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This!!

So I zone into Ramuh Ex, put a marker where we stand and tell the tanks to pick up 3 orbs to get a buff and provoke the boss when the MT doesn't have a buff. Simple, right? Everyone else, go to A when you get marked and others should hit you with one lighting ring. Also pretty simple. Well I guess not because the tanks are not touching any orbs, the dps are chilling in the water with the mind control mark and the rest are killing each other with aoe before we even get to add phase. And a mentor is somehow supposed to fix that.

It's so annoying when people expect the duty to just clear itself, although part of the blame should be put on the faceroll content new players are exposed to all the way until level 50. I'm perfectly fine with explaining things assuming people actually listen and immediately follow the advice given. Otherwise, please don't make me type all that for nothing. If you can't follow instructions written in the chat box, you haven't watched a guide and you aren't very good at figuring out mechanics on your own either, then what are you doing in the duty? Being dead most of the fight is getting carried just the same as doing it unsync.

Despite all the crying about WoW refugees ruining the game, ironically my extreme trials have actually been a lot better recently. Sprouts saying how they watched a guide and they actually know how to play and how to read chat. A 5-10 min extreme clear is great compared to a 20 min dungeon. I don't think I've ever seen 7 sprout groups play this well. FF players should take some notes, honestly.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

The system itself is not necessarily flawed. It works as intended on Sargatanas, and I believe on a few other servers as well. We need to look at these servers and determine what we're doing that you guys aren't, or vice versa.

Also, mentor roulette should not have EX trials. You shouldn't be going into those things with a bunch of sprouts. But until they change it, you accept the possibility that you'll get one when you queue. Don't like it? Don't take mentor roulette.

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In my server, NN usually isn't too bad, we have causal chat, but questions are being answered until someone start political topics and you can imagine how fast it gone south. May be if we have GM regulate NN would help keeping NN civilise.

My biggest issue is roulette, i know the frustration of EX, all you need is just 2-3 players refuse to learn and it could never progress.
However, I see quite often peoples abandon duties before the run start. 15 min is all it take to vote abandon, it is not hard to see if the groups is listerning and making progress or no hope in clearing. Staying for 15minutes to give the group a chance is not much to ask for.

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Originally Posted by Eien713

The thing is, what I mostly remember about your sound arguments is that you want mentors to carry and teach people because that's what it means to be a mentor. You demand way too much of mentors and refuse to admit that mentors aren't supposed to pick up the slack. They're just there to support. And one thing that strikes me as a contradiction is when you say that you don't give unsolicited advice. As a mentor, one of the roles in the screenshot you posted is to give gameplay advice. I suppose you'd be ok(?) with a mentor following in your footsteps by not giving unsolicited advice (even though giving advice is part of their "job" and a lot of people don't even know they need advice). After all, you also do this, and this is admittedly a way to protect oneself from the "you don't pay my sub" kind of people. In this case, what would be the problem with mentors wanting Ex trials to be removed from the roulette to preserve their sanity and save their time? It's the same self-preservation mindset.

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Mentoring is DEFINITELY a TWO way street. As a mentor I'm not here to carry people through content. If they're not willing to put forth an honest effort, I'm out. If progress is being made, I'll make every effort to support and encourage. If not, you get 20-30 min out of me, which is what I'd expect from a leveling dungeon run or a bad lvl 80 run.

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Originally Posted by Eien713

I keep repeating that you seem to attach a mentor's value solely to Ex trials and carrying people through them, when mentors do and can be way more than just that. I have no issue with Ex trials themselves. My issue is with the people who queue for them, whether they're clueless and don't know any better, expect these trials to be a faceroll and bail when it turns out they need to actually make an effort, people who don't look up a guide beforehand (which saves time and spares a poor mentor from typing), or people who don't read chat or just can't follow instructions for whatever reason (in the latter case, PF would provide them with a better experience). I'll gladly spend 1 hour wiping in an Ex trial if people are trying their best and making an effort (though I'd ideally prefer to be mentally prepared for this beforehand, but oh well).

TLDR: Why are mentors the only ones burdened with responsibility when it comes to Ex trials? Why do people overlook the fact that the people queuing for those trials in DF are a huge part of the reason why things are the way they are now?

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This in a nutshell. 100% truth.

It's idealism in its most ignorant form. I believe some people spend way too much time on these forums and get jaded as a result, it's the same with twitter, etc.

There's alot of non-mentor players going around griefing people and generally being toxic spergs. I once had someone offer me a seat on their mount when I was on an alt only to drop me in a zone full of high-leveled mobs to kill me. That's just one instance I fondly remember. Haven't reported them, it was just funny to me.

Also, going into EX content without knowing next to nothing about the fight is pretty stupid. This goes for both mentors and sprouts obviously, but with sprouts I see alot of dismissal on their part of responsibility because they're "new" and that means they can screw up as many times as they want to. Mentor bad, sprout good.

Im sorry it seems some servers have terrible mentors. Famfrit server mentors are fantastic. Great help. They give out fashion report kits to sprouts every week, actually party with you and teach you rotations. Some of these other servers sound just awful.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Pretty naive perspective honestly. Do you know how many people will bother with mentor roulette if you offer no reward for it? About 2 people maybe. Who's gonna fill those roulette parties then?

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Nah u just have people who want to help instead of people who are just there for the mount.

If there's a loophole players will find it and make use of it, its the same with the housing, the single person fcs and many other things.

If SE lets you close the game midfight but keeps you in the party, well i guess they wanted it that way.
The game can clearly distinguish between a real dc (red dot) and a exit can it not?

Why doesn't closing the game on a non DC leave the instance (and give penalty)? its just another of those "eh" moments in which SE only went 90% of the way and then said ... you know what, 90% is almost there anyway.

Why would there ever be a situation in which you need to close the game but remain in the party?

personally I think that the moment you put on the crown you accepted a responsibility to teach and guide others if we look up the meaning of the word "Mentor"

"a person who gives a younger or less experienced person help and advice over a period of time"

if your unwilling to do so then please remove your burger king crown and lower your head in shame if anything SE needs to enforce their ToS and start handing out 24 Hour / 3 Day bans to those who are purposely doing this