The trouble with telling tanks W2W pulls are a mandatory norm.

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Originally Posted by Herebedragons

Well, I suppose all I can say at this point is "congratulations on being a better tank than I am".

Not sure why I expected anything else on the forums.

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they're not wrong, though, only a few leveling ones can't be w2w'd in DF

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Okay I'll ask it: proof?

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People do 8 tank ultimates and solo healer TEA, but you don't think 4 dps expert dungeon is possible. Go look up some videos or logs.

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Originally Posted by Herebedragons

My point was, you can't set a standard for your average DF run using those runs that were planned and probably practiced beforehand.

Expert might be easy right now, but some dungeons that used to be in that roulette are tricky for W2W. Especially if you're playing a more squishy tank and get a healer who can't keep up with you.

Now I'm gonna stop talking about this because apparently OP is displeased with us.

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Think that is part of the issue only time w2w fails when people fail at their role. More or less the standard those against w2w are putting largely boils down to doing just the bare minimum which should never be the case in group based content we should promote doing the best we possibly can. The barrier for handling w2w pulls in most dungeons is not that high in the first place. Not sure why people think it is some amazing pro gamer playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

They're not actually wrong that it's possible to run level 80 dungeons without a healer. I can attest to this because I've done those runs with folks from my FC for fun. It doesn't always succeed, but it does often enough that it's enjoyable to try.

However, doing so does require a tank who knows their mitigations pretty well and uses them effectively, and three DPS who are going to rain down death upon those pulls to burn them quickly. I would not say it's an easy thing to do with complete strangers, nor the sort of performance that's reasonable to expect from roulette parties.

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Using mitigation and doing your rotation properly should be the bare minimum for anyone playing this game. Anyone not doing that should be kicked.

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Yeah I watched some people actually vaporize Heroes in twelve minutes, could have been ten or eleven if DNC hadn't died. My issue is all these people going "hEaLeRs R uSlEs" seem to be under the impression that most if not all players should be doing this. Which is just as likely as me finding Bigfoot using my shower, Captain Caveman cleaning my car, and people on Twitter saying the crap they say on there in real life.

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Hey, at no point did I say Healer's are useless, that's not even the point of the thread or my post. If you wanna make stuff up to fit your narrative and move the goalposts go ahead.

I haven't tanked since late ARR and it's the W2W/rush-rush-rush/impatient points of view that keep me from giving it another go; especially when doing leveling dungeons with synched players running their daily roulettes.

As a new player,(ex wow) currently lvl 70 PLD, I was quite curious what the tanking meta would be.

My initial question was, how does the community react to kite tanking. Will they be upset if I pull mobs out of their ground aoe.

I then realized it’s not kiting per-say, it’s called Wall to Wall.

That being said, if it’s my first time in a dungeon, I simply don’t know when the next wall will be, where the packs are, or if any packs spawn randomly.

I do try to go as fast as the group allows though and pull multiple packs when I can.

Looking forward to learning the dungeons better so that I can start doing wall to wall.

most players won't say anything if you pull mobs out of AOE's, especially in non-cap (50/60/70/80) dungeons because those hit a bit harder than the ones in those - and those that do get mad should be ignored because it's really stupid to get upset about that
whenever I play tank, I use the first pull to gauge the ability/damage of the group, usually it's okay to w2w or pick up 3-4 groups, but if the DPS is low I do smaller pulls, especially if my mitigation hasn't come off cooldown

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Originally Posted by Nishira

I think for me the issue with ‘allknown facts’ like these are that it promotes a mindset where people expect one way of this situation playing out for them, or feel this one way is expected of them. While imho any group content with strangers should be approached with a flexible and unassuming mindset, and the situation dealt with as it is, instead of how it ‘should’ be. Saves a lot of frustration on all sides, whether you are a veteran or a sprout, whether you like fastpaced action or a more chill approach. The content itself may be extremely familiar to you, but the group is not which can affect the content a lot obviously.

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This is the best take so far and I want to believe that it's the silent majority's opinion on it as well. Put simply, "Play to the strengths of your group."

You're playing with strangers, you never know whose on the other side. New, young, old, physical/mental health issues, tired, stressed, etc...

(Also, thank you Nishira, your insight is very refreshing to see on the official forums.)

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Originally Posted by Awha

Think that is part of the issue only time w2w fails when people fail at their role. More or less the standard those against w2w are putting largely boils down to doing just the bare minimum which should never be the case in group based content we should promote doing the best we possibly can. The barrier for handling w2w pulls in most dungeons is not that high in the first place. Not sure why people think it is some amazing pro gamer playstyle.

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Never said it was a pro gamer move or what have you, but when I get a healer in Amaurot who can't keep me up despite me rotating all my CDs, including Arm's Length and Superbolide, W2W probably isn't that much fun for them.

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Originally Posted by Flashock

As a new player,(ex wow) currently lvl 70 PLD, I was quite curious what the tanking meta would be.

My initial question was, how does the community react to kite tanking. Will they be upset if I pull mobs out of their ground aoe.

I then realized it’s not kiting per-say, it’s called Wall to Wall.

That being said, if it’s my first time in a dungeon, I simply don’t know when the next wall will be, where the packs are, or if any packs spawn randomly.

I do try to go as fast as the group allows though and pull multiple packs when I can.

Looking forward to learning the dungeons better so that I can start doing wall to wall.

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I don't think it common for people to complain about you moving things out of enemy AoEs, although player AoEs I imagine may cause minor annoyance depending on who you run into. I typically only move mobs out of necessity (such as incoming damage) once I am settled in. Kiting for the four-mans isn't a particularly common practice if things are going as normal. I remember two notable instances of kiting when it was current content, first in Cutter's Cry (which when I experienced it, it was the healer kiting adds on the first boss) and in Saint Mocianne's Arboretum (Normal) to lock trash out before the second boss, but that's all I can recall from the four-man dungeons.

That aside, it's the usual: go as fast as you and your group feels comfortable with. I wall to wall where possible, but I like to do a test pull to gauge the party and adjust as needed or if requested. Once I know the layout, I also try to make it a habit to warn people if I intend to pull to a specific location, or if I'm going to use a wall/pillar LoS ranged to me.