Who else is worried about SE and Ast?

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

That looks like the approach they're going for but the problem with that is that every healer then becomes a carbon copy of each other. What's the point?

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Distinctions can be made in ways other than just ‘has the ability to apply shields’ y’know?

Like with tanks - despite having a very similar mitigation kit, WAR’s increased self-healing and mitigation sets it aside from PLD’s party mitigation, which is set aside from GNB’s weaker-but-more-frequent shields, and DRK’s ‘only-worth-if-it-breaks’ TBN.
Different styles and specialisations, despite their similarities.

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

Adding a 4th tank wasn't the thing that balanced them, it was the trivialisation of Aggro.
Then ShB's tank stances came and basically removed Aggro as a mechanic, so now each tank stands on its own merits, rather than being pidgeonholed into one of two categories, and so balance can be achieved easier.

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Funny because at the start of Shadowbringer the Dev's specifically saying their design intent was for there two be two main tanks and two off tanks despite that not actually happening.

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

Distinctions can be made in ways other than just ‘has the ability to apply shields’ y’know?

Like with tanks - despite having a very similar mitigation kit, WAR’s increased self-healing and mitigation sets it aside from PLD’s party mitigation, which is set aside from GNB’s weaker-but-more-frequent shields, and DRK’s ‘only-worth-if-it-breaks’ TBN.
Different styles and specialisations, despite their similarities.

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Warrior currently has the worst mitigation IIRC (mostly due to Nascent Flash issues). And PLD is the king of self healing with Clemency.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Warrior currently has the worst mitigation IIRC (mostly due to Nascent Flash issues). And PLD is the king of self healing with Clemency.

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That would be Gunbreaker, actually. Warrior has the best self sustain with Equilibrium, Thrill and Nascent Flash. It can keep itself alive at no cost to its own damage which is pretty significant outside prog.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Warrior currently has the worst mitigation IIRC (mostly due to Nascent Flash issues). And PLD is the king of self healing with Clemency.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

That would be Gunbreaker, actually. Warrior has the best self sustain with Equilibrium, Thrill and Nascent Flash. It can keep itself alive at no cost to its own damage which is pretty significant outside prog.

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PLD is the one with the worst self-sustain, as their 'heal skill' requires a GCD and they have 1 less defensive cooldown (presumably to make up for their extra party cooldown)

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

PLD is the one with the worst self-sustain, as their 'heal skill' requires a GCD and they have 1 less defensive cooldown (presumably to make up for their extra party cooldown)

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Technically speaking, PLD is the one with the least efficient self-sustain, since it costs a GCD and a chunk of MP to use.
But it is the only one without a cooldown, so if DPS isn't a concern (healer is struggling, for instance) then PLD's is by far the best.

Healing-potency wise the tank with the worst self-sustain is probably DRK, which only has Souleater (full combo) and Abyssal Drain.
Before you say TBN, TBN is great, but not actual healing. The shield will disappear after 7s, and you can absolutely be whittled down by autoattacks that outdamage your Souleater + Abyssal Drain.

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Originally Posted by Volkaj

Technically speaking, PLD is the one with the least efficient self-sustain, since it costs a GCD and a chunk of MP to use.
But it is the only one without a cooldown, so if DPS isn't a concern (healer is struggling, for instance) then PLD's is by far the best.

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Though in content that actually matters (any content with an enrage), it's by far the least desirable 'sustain'

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Originally Posted by Volkaj

Healing-potency wise the tank with the worst self-sustain is probably DRK, which only has Souleater (full combo) and Abyssal Drain.
Before you say TBN, TBN is great, but not actual healing. The shield will disappear after 7s, and you can absolutely be whittled down by autoattacks that outdamage your Souleater + Abyssal Drain.

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I do count TBN as healing, same as I would Galvanise, Nocturnal Field, and Divine Benison. And DRK has the potential to 'heal' up 100% of their HP every minute, which is much better than any of the other tanks can boast, on top of the lifesteal from Souleater.
You won't find many DRKs, or many fights, where you can get that amount of usage of TBN. The potential is there though, and I don't think anybody in their right mind would say no to a Benediction on a 60s cooldown.

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

Though in content that actually matters (any content with an enrage), it's by far the least desirable 'sustain'



I do count TBN as healing, same as I would Galvanise, Nocturnal Field, and Divine Benison. And DRK has the potential to 'heal' up 100% of their HP every minute, which is much better than any of the other tanks can boast, on top of the lifesteal from Souleater.
You won't find many DRKs, or many fights, where you can get that amount of usage of TBN. The potential is there though, and I don't think anybody in their right mind would say no to a Benediction on a 60s cooldown.

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There's a difference between effective health and healing. TBN is effective health, it doesn't "heal you". It just provides more health for a little while, if the mob doesn't go through that shield it vanishes.

And if you want to talk about healing 100% of your health every minute, PLD has that in spades. Requiescat is on a 60s CD and provides 50% healing while it's up if you have max mana. So if you were in survival mode and popped that you could have 9000 potency worth of healing in 5 instant cast GCDs which is more than 100% of your HP.

That's assuming none of those Clemency's crit, which TBN can never do.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Warrior currently has the worst mitigation IIRC (mostly due to Nascent Flash issues). And PLD is the king of self healing with Clemency.

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The former simply isn't true - like at all
War's mitigation is the best for mobs, and second best to DRK for Boss fights.

I agree that Paladin has by far the best potential for self-healing, even if it isn't optimal most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

CLEMENCY

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That's great and all, but you're giving up 3300 attack potency to do that, while DRK gives up aboslutely nothing.
It's neat that PLD has that option, but it's not actually going to be used outside of drastic dungeon disastors or progression.

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

That's great and all, but you're giving up 3300 attack potency to do that, while DRK gives up aboslutely nothing.
It's neat that PLD has that option, but it's not actually going to be used outside of drastic dungeon disastors or progression.

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You're clearly ignoring the part where I said in emergency situations where survival is important.

A dead tank is a dead group. You'd be a fool to not use whatever tool you can to live.