SE: Please copyright takedown FFLogs.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Perhaps had SE had a in game personal parser and such this would be less of an issue.
While sometimes it could be deemed annoying as some seem to think FFlogs is the bible of ffxiv to make points or arguements it is still a tool.
As a console player we get no sort of feedback at all even if we think we do great dps, lol
So when someone does upload i do like to have a look or even at that of other players on the same job

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Personal parser would not be ever used by anyone who has an option to play with actual legit parser.
Checking your own performance is only a part of why people are using it. The main reason why the parser is in this shape is because we want to compare our performance with others, and also judge other over their performance, depending on the person he may want to help the less dps guy or leave the duty or call him out on it. The good thing about it is, when you are performing really good and you see it, you feel much better doing duties since you achived something important.
A flat DPS number of yours doesnt matter if you cant compare it with others.

I like to see myself doing good dps comparing to others, thats the main reason why i am using it.

But like i mentioned i am on console... so therefore do not have access to parsers anyhow.
The only time i see my parses (and yes on FFlogs) is when someone uploads.

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

https://i.redd.it/x5f3liofjyqy.png

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Hey! Someone else used my sig! I feel special!

When you know that even the newest player in this game can be the most toxic player in the world for pretending knowing everything while he doesn't, this kind of topic makes no sense.

Erase humanity at this point.

I agree with the OP. FFlogs doesn't even take into account the entire raiding community anyway. So we really don't know what should be acceptable average DPS and what shouldn't. Lets not forget about Cherry Picked parses and how that affects the overall average of dps classes and inflates what is acceptable, forcing people to try and do more then what they theoretically should. Or how SE said that all current stormblood content was cleared in house without any Healer DPS, so healer dps shouldn't matter but seems to on fflogs. Many groups have cleared without any healer dps anyway. Or my all time favorite, where current content has been cleared with entire grey parsed groups multiple times from ex primals, to savage groups. Why is that? Because FFlogs has inflated numbers as i stated before. Until it takes into account the entire raiding community, it will always have numbers that are inflated and not accurate nor showing the average dps, a dps SHOULD be doing. In Wow it was different and very accurate, but here, it isn't.

I have experienced people not taking friends of mine because they have grey parses in EX trials and Savage content (Even though savage content and EX primals can be cleared with a full grey parsed group of 8). I have also seen friends not taken because they have hidden their fflogs (Three of them are currently purple/orange parsed people). Attitudes and the reliance on a half baked inaccurate system combined with toxic behavior is the reason why this website needs an opt-in, and not a opt-out hidden log situation that we have now or downright taken down. As I said I know plenty of green,blue people who have theirs turned off and three purple/orange parced people and all have experienced the toxic behavior by others because they are choosing not to show their logs. Mine are on there and are shown and I parce green but then im on ps4, and have no reason to go make an account to turn them off. I clear all current content on my main toon in 3-6 weeks of the savage/ex trials being out and couldn't be bothered with some stupid inaccurate website. We don't even know what the appropriate average dps is for classes to clear current content.

Before anyone goes to look at this toon, this is not my main. This toon has bad parses all around but there are reasons for that, which I will not divulge here.

TLDR: Fflogs promotes toxic behavior and should be taken down or changed. It also isnt accurate when Plenty of full grey parced parties have cleared current savage/ex trial's. FFlogs either needs to remove all names unless the players opt-in OR it needs to be taken down.

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Originally Posted by lionelbrun

I agree with the OP.

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Well, first and foremost, I guess I should say that OP was more than likely trolling with this thread, so you got baited real hard here.

I had a response written out for the rest of this, but there’s no point, really. I’m not going to get into another debate over damage values; been there, done that.

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Originally Posted by lionelbrun

(Even though savage content and primals can be cleared with a full grey parsed group of 8).

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You don't remember "Skip Soar or disband"? It has more to do with not bringing someone who isn't pulling their weight. Yeah, you can clear content with below-average players, but why, especially since chances at loot will be the same.

It may not be extremely accurate, but it does its job. Yes, higher end will be padded, but it will be balanced out by people who are dead for the majority of the fight. If someone has multiple greys, you can say for certain they aren't familiar with the fight, their job, or both.

That said, I do think they should go after the site. Doing so will start up the conversation about the lack of an official parser again, which is one of the most ridiculous design choices in the game. Lack of action also goes against their reasoning. "We don't want to add a parser because it would split the community", but that site that everyone knows about that not only ranks, but allows anyone to view it is fine? Makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

You don't remember "Skip Soar or disband"? It has more to do with not bringing someone who isn't pulling their weight. Yeah, you can clear content with below-average players, but why, especially since chances at loot will be the same.

It may not be extremely accurate, but it does its job. Yes, higher end will be padded, but it will be balanced out by people who are dead for the majority of the fight. If someone has multiple greys, you can say for certain they aren't familiar with the fight, their job, or both.

That said, I do think they should go after the site. Doing so will start up the conversation about the lack of an official parser again, which is one of the most ridiculous design choices in the game. Lack of action also goes against their reasoning. "We don't want to add a parser because it would split the community", but that site that everyone knows about that not only ranks, but allows anyone to view it is fine? Makes no sense.

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I guess the full 8 player grey parsed groups that have cleared ex trials/savage are all not pulling their weight yet managed to kill the fights over and over? That totally negates anyone saying people are not pulling their weight. Because even with a full party of greys, the content is still getting cleared. My most recent farm party of Suzaku, right after she came out, I cleared her 38 times with a full party of greys and myself being green and got my dog on my 38th run. I doubt a green parced scrub such as myself was carrying the entire group. Last tiers Savage was done with mostly grey groups and myself being green, occasionally there was a blue or purple in there but mostly greens/greys as I party finder all content. And yet it all still got cleared which to me, makes fflogs not even needed.

Also your asking why play with others who are "below par" and not pulling their weight? Not pulling their weight and below par according to who? An inaccurate website with padded and inflated numbers that has been proven to be inaccurate. You cant even say someone is not pulling their weight, when entire grey parsed groups are clearing all current ex trials and savages. That is an easy answer though, I clear all current content and don't worry about parses. There is no point when all content can be cleared by full grey parse parties. It makes fflogs and parses even prove that they are inflated/inaccurate and I tell everyone I can to stay far away from that. I would rather clear content then worry about parses. I clear content faster doing party finder and not worrying about parse numbers, then statics on my server who worry about such things. Some of my groups were fully grey! Makes me laugh.

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Originally Posted by lionelbrun

(Even though savage content and EX primals can be cleared with a full grey parsed group of 8).

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I'd like to see that. I've experience several "how did we even kill that" enrages, you know, like 1/2 a second before enrage, or even after we all died and dot's kept ticking. Still had people in green/blue/purple.

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Originally Posted by lionelbrun

I guess the full 8 player grey parsed groups that have cleared ex trials/savage are all not pulling their weight yet managed to kill the fights over and over? That totally negates anyone saying people are not pulling their weight. Because even with a full party of greys, the content is still getting cleared.

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And I still pass an exam with 4,0 - doesnt mean I (or the group) did good.
Lower DPS = longer battle = more mechanics = more stress on tanks/healers = more chance to wipe

Using this logic (grey parsers, and with that people not playing their job to their full potential - no matter what SE "expects" of us a grey parser means that there are possibilities to play much, much better than that, even without any padding) it would be okay for a BLM to only spame Ice II in a dungeon as long as its being cleared within 90 minutes - and I bet it would be. Doesnt mean thats "okay" or even "playing as intended" and for sure far from "playing good".

Being able to clear something doesnt mean you should stop improving and fflog and parsers are telling you if, that and where you have room to do that - but I guess wanting to improve, pushing your own limites and playing your job to its full potential isnt for everyone... I'd advice you to find like minded people - who are also fine with being lazy...