Only bought it up as the argument from both sides seems mainly to be based around reward for effort made. It's a pretty subjective topic though, people have different standards for what constitutes effort, whether it be through raw difficulty or time consumed.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
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11-02-2018, 06:52 AMZephera
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11-02-2018, 07:05 AMTintExactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazgrel
That's what I pay my sub for, to run the never ending treadmill of increasing the numbers.
On a sidenote I think it's funny how people say "you don't need higher item level" but on the other hand "you need to improve" to deal more dps so a expert run doesn't take 30 mins. So I should improve to deal more dps but run around in the minimum item level I need to enter?
Increasing the numbers helps in every content, not only in raids. And stopping to increase the numbers means also to stop to improve your character and this leads to stop playing the game. -
11-02-2018, 07:29 AMwhiskeybravoNah, good gear doesn't equal good damage. Bad rotation is still bad. I'll take a raider that has an undergeared alt over an overgeared casual player any day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
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11-02-2018, 07:34 AMVahlnirIf you're going by item levels and power, casual players can end up getting equally powerful gear with little effort in the form of tome gear. The biggest difference between raiding and tome gear is maybe some optimal stats (maybe), +5 on a raiding weapon compared to another, and maybe 1 accessory, probably a ring unless they give us another Proto Ultima-style fight. It just takes a bit longer, but certainly doesn't require much effort to get tome gear and upgrade them fully. This isn't accounting for BiS this and that, mind you, but as far as item level and power goes they are all but one in the same. Raiders just get there sooner.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
Bad players will be bad, that much I can agree with. Gear won't help them. However, raiders themselves can potentially be bad. Don't judge a book by its cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
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11-02-2018, 10:37 AMLumis_Arvalo...assuming you're referring to me, you understand I was intentionally presenting a conflicting view to make a point, yes? I was refuting the claim that item level doesn't matter for content you aren't doing by pointing out that if that is the case item level as a mechanic shouldn't exist because everyone can potentially do everything in the bare minimum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
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11-02-2018, 11:28 AMTint
Welp, this isn't the discussion I wanted to do anyway.
What I want is that the relic weapon doesn't get butchered by the tomestone weapon. I actually don't care how strong the relic is in correlation to the raid weapon.
You have to invest 5 hours, spread over 7 weeks, to get the tomestone weapon.
For getting the 1000 tomes you have to run expert roulette 11 times. To reach the weekly cap of 450 you need 5 experts. Capping stones for 2 weeks and run expert one more time in week 3. This grants you 990 tomes, you will get the last 10 from clearing Alphascape 4 normal.
One expert takes 20 minutes. 11 runs x 20 minutes = 220 minutes.
You have to clear Alphascape 4 normal 7 times. How long does a run take? 10 minutes? So it's 7 runs x 10 minutes = 70 minutes.
220 + 70 = 290. Let's round it to 300 and that is 5 hours.
5 hours of work spread over 7 weeks is like not playing the game at all. That's also less than 2 timers in Eureka.
So why is the relic, wich needs a huge time investment, not actually better than a weapon wich is handed out almost for free? Okay, the relic has 3 materia slots more, but that's still underwhelming when you compare the amount of work to get these two weapons.
Tomestone gear in general is just too good and makes other gear options irrelevant. Why get the gear from normal mode raid and 24 man raids, or the relic gear, when you can just wait for weekly reset and buy the better tomestone stuff? Yeah casual players should not fall behind, I get it.
But I actually want to play this game, not just running 5 experts and wait for reset, and I am not a raider. Why is there no real option for people like me, wich doesn't feel like a huge waste of time because tomestone gear outclasses everything except the savage raid gear anyway? (and even that is arguably since it will have the same item level in the end)
Where is my carrot on a stick? :O -
11-02-2018, 12:00 PMNihility
relic is messed up this whole expansion because Eureka was fumbled so badly. It will keep upgrading and eventually be the best while tomestone gear will always get outdated
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11-02-2018, 01:46 PMBourne_EndeavorWhen I can queue into Ridorana as a tank and be top five in DPS, gear is not the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
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11-02-2018, 07:40 PMDualgunnerAnd Ultimate weapons only have one extra materia slot over the raid weapon. I guess it's the same idea; the weapon is a bragging rights (This is my reward for my hard work) weapon moreso than a useful one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
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11-02-2018, 09:19 PMLastelliQuote:
Originally Posted by Tint
Because tomestones have a weekly cap. You can get your eureka weapon in a few days if you're crazy enough. Also, the tomestone weapon competes with the other tomestone gear because, again, tomestones are limited. Personally, I wouldn't touch the tomestone weapon with the end of a stick. It would just delay my BiS and the possibility to try other jobs in savage.
And as already said by Whiskey and Cassandra, gear is not very relevant for your numbers if you don't know your job's rotation and how to adapt to different encounters. I've seen ilvl 380+ players in expert roulettes being outdpsed by healers and tanks. Gear won't help those players.