Tanks and super pulls

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Originally Posted by ZankokuNoYami

And I have to say without any hesitation I cannot stand tanks who do super pulls. Whenever I tank, I make it as easy for the DPS and healer as possible. I focus purely on one set of enemies at a time, doing my best to keep all focus on me.

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The problem is that if you're only doing 1 group at a time, you might as well drop the healer for a 3rd DPS. The incoming dmg is too low to justify the healer. I can confirm firsthand that expert can be done with 1 tank + 3 DPS.

Large pulls help DPS push large numbers, they get more bang for their buck when AoEing and using dmg cooldowns. Healers can recover MP between pulls, so long as they don't do something silly like Regen you while pulling big. When you do pull big, ensure the healer isn't overstrained via defensive cooldowns.

When I tank I don't like turning the dungeon into savage content for my healer so I pull small.
And then the dps run ahead and pull more for me. Good times.
This was never really an issue before stormblood for some reason.

I get yelled at by healers when I try to tank small groups. I can't win.

The key is communication guys. I have a macro for this that I push at the start when I tank a dungeon.

/p Hello!
/p Healer please let me know what you want me to pull:
/p 1. Group of 3
/p 2. Group of 4-8 (medium)
/p 3. EVERYTHING
/p <se.10>
/p Otherwise I'll do medium pull (#2)
/p .
/p In any case, please let me know if you want
/p me to pull more or less ^^

Every time I use this it's gotten GREAT feedback from the healers (from the little sprout ones in Totorak to the 340ilv ones in Expert Dungeons) because they understand right away your intention, and will respond accordingly (do #2 or do #3).

This is why: Newer healers usually say right away that they're new because they're scared, therefore tank will know to pull small groups.

The problem, however, is with average and experienced healers. Average healers cannot do #3 at Ala Mhigo for example, and experienced healers can, but both healers never express their intention (to pull a lot or not). They expect you to pull what they think you should pull: average healers will expect #2, experienced ones will expect #3, so without communication, it's going to turn into a salt run). Therefore by saying this outright, it's their responsibility to tell you if they want you to pull more or not.

As a tank, my pace is based on my healer's gear and performance on the first pull, and the DPS composition. Usually I pull normally, because that's normal. Don't like it? Leave group, wait off the deserter penalty, then wait another half hour for a new group. How much time did that save?

As a healer, I heal as best I can, and if you pulled so much that you're taking enough damage to kill you within a GCD, then you die. You grabbed a sliver of aggro on 20+ mobs who beat you to 10% HP while you sprinted around corners, then expected me to perform a split-second miracle with no margin for error. Your gear sucks, you don't use CDs, don't manage threat and have no situational awareness. You bet everything on 7s and rolled snake eyes. You wiped on trash. How much time did that save?

I don't care if some salty spaz DPS doesn't like me. My time is valuable too and I choose to use it playing the game as it's designed to be played.

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Originally Posted by ElonMuskForPrez

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I use a macro like yours and I get silence or snide comments.

Your post needs to directed at healers too, not just tanks. Communication is both ways.

Quit over complicating things.

Check your parties gear. If they are in decent stuff, pull big. If you wipe, come back and pull small.

Done.

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

snip.

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My macro is basically "I'll pull medium unless you want something else" so silence = I'll do medium pull ^^ As you've said communication is both ways, silence is a communication too. It's as if they're saying "I'm too lazy to type so pull whatever you want". If they disagree then they'll type something. If they don't, and they complain later or wipe, anyone with half a brain knows whose responsibility it is (unless you don't use CDs properly). If s/he kept complaining then that person is an asshole, just ignore and move on.

Also if they say snide comments why would that even matter lol, I'll also do standard pull unless their snide comments contain a message saying how much I should pull.
E.g. if they say "Aw man you noob tank I can heal all pulls in this dungeon" that translates to "pull everything!" I actually LOVE healers that tell me to pull everything and actually live up to their words.

But such jerk healers are rare in my experience. In the almost 1k dungeons I've participated, I've only ran to 1 uber jerk healer (Aurum Vale, didn't say anything when I ask if he wanted to do speedrun pull or I'll do medium pull. I do normal and he started name calling)

Most amazing/monster healers immediately say "do #3" (and they really were amazing lol). Most average healers don't say anything/dont complain and they do good job on medium pulls.

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Originally Posted by abcat

When I tank I do not like the big pulls, but felt pressured by healers and dps to do the big pulls. I know that when I heal I like to take care of smaller groups. Seen too many tanks think they can handle it only to blow all the mana using cure three. I found out many tanks do not know what protective cools downs are and then question if I know how to heal.

Frankly I might just continue to let my black list grow. I kind of wished that to pull multiple groups would be fatal no matter if it is at level.

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If you use Cure 3, then it's not just the tank's fault - either the DPS take damage or you think Cure 3 is an upgraded Cure 2 and thus suck.

I do superpull, there is no a problem to do it.
The problem is like if i complain to the healer if i die, i don't expect all healers to be top healer, so if there a problem when you do a superpull even if you put enough CD. its just mean you have to pull less.
If you stay correct with others, there no problem... as tank you can adapt to your healer skill.
The real problem is just when players get salty and i can't understand when players get salty for a little dungeon.