MNK 4.0 Changes . . . I'm not a fan tbh

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Originally Posted by Raionx

Riddle of Earth (Terribly thought out mechanic requiring monks to get hit to refresh stacks when they can't be attacking. But i've seen plenty of bosses who jump away and not do dmg for a long time. If it granted GL3 when you get hit instead of refreshing it that would be different)

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Im pretty sure the current consensus of the monk community from watching multiple videos is that only the damage reduction requires you to get hit to proc. The extension of GL duration happens upon using the ability and does not require taking damage.

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Originally Posted by Haaki

The game is not just end-game raids with perfect statics. 24man raids, 4man dungeons, pugs, there's a lot of situations where i've run out of TP under 3min mark when SS is over 700.

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Looks like TP was lowered on alot of single target abilities and you won't be burning TP on touch of death or fracture any more. I don't think there will be any TP issues

Brotherhood is not a 5% buff for everyone it's a 5% buff for physical healer dps and caster dps are unaffected. and you are probably only going to get about 2-3 Forbidden Chakra(if you are lucky) during brotherhood/riddle

Dps will be fine I've never thought otherwise I'm sure whatever they have thrown together will be in the ballpark of other melee dps.

My issue is for 2 expansions in a row they have added really garbage abilities to monks. The only skills I don't take issue with is elixir field and form shift.

Tornado Kick is bad period

Brotherhood is bad 5% dmg that excludes casters is not a reason to take monk Ninja DRG still better raid utility SAM more damage no need for monk

Riddle of Earth is bad very few fights where this ability will be useful at all without purposefully getting hit by something you otherwise would have avoided. Unless all the new stormblood fights are going to do jump mechanics followed by immediate raid dmg that is unavoidable a terrible ability

Riddle of fire is bad the thing that sucks about losing GL3 is the loss of attack speed so now lets just make you spend like 20% of the fight like that for what will likely barely be better than the blood for blood it's replacing

purification is not as good as invigorate and makes us lose a FC

The chakra system was a good idea poorly executed
Deep Meditation somewhat addresses the problem of chakra

Tackle Mastery is a joke and they should feel bad for creating it

I fully expect monk dps will be fine. Dps is just numbers they could easily if it appears monks are too low just raise some potency. My issue is with the god awful abilities

None of this changes how clunky the riddles and and shoulder tackle changes are though. Unless something changes drastically, riddle of wind/wind tackle is not going to be used, earth tackle is unlikely to be used, and riddle of earth is useful but very situational. That leaves us with brotherhood, riddle of fire, fire tackle and deep meditation as our game changers to replace everything that was ripped out. Even ignoring potencies and TP costs, it's not very much, is it?

It's beyond obvious that even a player who casually plays MNK would see these skills and see how they don't make sense. Math has been done on many posts here to show that we're not gaining anything to compensate the changes. MNK has stayed the same through the last 4 years and I am OK on it's flow, I love MNK for having such a solid playstyle but adding these "Riddles" and "elemental tackles" really tells me:

1. I'll still be using FoF.
2. I'll still be using Shoulder Tackle "Fire eddition".
3. RoF becomes my B4B replacement with a few (but livable) caveats.
4. I still have one gated "mid" potency skill behind a stack system that's been lacking synergy since 3.0
5. I still have my highest potency skill tied to a caveat of only using it 1-2 times per instance.
6. I still have stun and silence gated behind forms.

What I would like to see:

If you really want us to switch around the Fist options, we'll welcome it if you change abilities which would really use a buff:

Thematically, off the top of my head:

Fists of Earth > Echoes of the Land = Increase 5% defense. Increases Range of Certain Skills by 2y (the following) becomes a trait

* Arm of of the Destroyer > Rhalgr's Roar = Potency goes form 50 to 150. Silence removed on base skill. 1s Pacification (can be nullified after 3 strikes) removed from form requirement.
* Rockbreaker > Rock Crusher = Potency increase from 130 to 220. Chains from Arm/Rhalgr.
* Riddle of Earth = Grants Earth's reply. After a refresh of GL3 it gives you FB. CDs the same

Fists of Wind > Whispers of the Sky = Increases movement speed and evasion by 5%. Reduces Tornado kick GL requirement from 3 to 1. Becomes a trait

* Howling Fists > Raging Fists = Potency increase from 210 to 280, same AoE. CD remains at 60s
* Tornado Kick = Potency increase from 330 to 350. CD is 15s CD.
* Mythril Peak = oGCD that casts 1s Silence. Potency 150. 15s CD.
* One Ilm Punch = oGCD with 1s Stun. Potency 150. 15s CD.
* Riddle of Wind = Grands "Wind's Grace". Lets you use TK without GL penalty. 60s. Locks TK on a 5s window.

Fists of Fire > Rhalgr's Fire = increases damage, direct hit rate and critical hit rate by 5%. Becomes a trait.

* Meteor Barret = 3 stage attack each with a potency of 100. has a 30% to grant GL3 if it's the opening attack. 120s CD.
* Phantom Rush = 600 potency attack. Requires "Burning Rave" buff. 15s CD
* Riddle of Fire = Grants "Burning Rave" status. lasts 15s. Increases damage 30%. 30s CD. (MNKs dreadwyrm trance)

Outside of that

* Perfect Balance = Negates positional penalty and form requirement. Positional bonuses reduced by half. 120s CD.
* Deep Meditation = Grants a Chakra every 3s passively.
* Forbidden Chakra = Potency from 250 to 300. 15s CD
* Shoulder Tackle = Loses Stun. Potency at 130. Has a 30% chance to reset after use.
* Brotherhood? Kill it with fire.


I know my recommendations would likely have (a lot of) balance issues that would (obviously) be tweaked. However I feel it fits better, thematically speaking, than 3 elemental tackles and 3 "riddles" that don't have synergy with how MNK plays.

For an expansion trying to reduce button bloat the fist/riddle implementation seems counterproductive. Originally just hearing the name "earth tackle" I was hoping that AotD and Shoulder Tackle would just be merged together. A distance closer with the ability to release an aoe upon reaching its destination. Because AotD had that silence bonus, maybe instead of that...it would just reward GL stacks based on the number of targets hit (hit a boss = GL3?). Still a better thought than just a simple knockback that earth tackle gives. I was hoping this expansion would give a quick GL3 button to help make Tornado kick a little more usable. Or maybe just a shorter cooldown on PB.

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Originally Posted by KaiSunstrider

Im pretty sure the current consensus of the monk community from watching multiple videos is that only the damage reduction requires you to get hit to proc. The extension of GL duration happens upon using the ability and does not require taking damage.

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MrHappy's monk video confirms it happens when you take damage not use the ability. In the Video he had 7 seconds left on greased lightning when he used riddle of earth his stack did not refresh it's duration until he snap punched the enemy.

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Originally Posted by Raionx

Brotherhood is bad 5% dmg that excludes casters is not a reason to take monk Ninja DRG still better raid utility SAM more damage no need for monk

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https://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...rotherhood.png
Unless that image is incorrect, it says "nearby party members" it does not exclude any type of job

Here's a simple way this mess could be cleaned up at least a little: make fist switching automatic. If you are attacking something, you automatically enter fists of fire. If you haven't attacked something for x seconds, you enter fists of wind. This automatically means that you can open with wind tackle (as I think was the intention) without the constant hassle of switching back and forth between fist stances. Using riddle of earth or toggling on fists of earth overrides the other two until it's manually switched off again. Not perfect but it's a start.

I can agree about bunch of the additions being lame. But I think riddle of fire and brotherhood will be nice additions.

I think having slow big powerful attacks will be nice change of pace with riddle of fire. I don't particularly have to identify a hand to hand specialist as flurry of attacks specialist. Plenty of badass hand to hand specialist in games that focus on slower more impactful attacks. In fact look at the male monk in the trailer video.

Brotherhood seems like unique buff that will make the rotation a little bit different compared to a boring straight damage increase cool down buff. Ya it's rng based but I won't cry over it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...lily_with_100/
whm lillies passing from 20% to 100%
And, Yoshida saying the video was more than a months old, many things have changed
just sharing, no idea why