[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I don't see why there has to be only one tank.

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Because otherwise, how would we know what class we absolutely need to shout for and thus exclude all other people from joining our party?

Mages really got the shaft here. Loss of tons of spells/abilities/weapon skills.

LNC looks like it's going to be on crack.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

I read the localized version, but I don't think there's a huge difference just because it's a translation.
What I read was "hate-gain-skill 1", "hate-gain-skill 2",..."hate-gain-skill 5", "def-up-skill" + various attack skills and a description of the class saying "takes all the dmg the monsters deal while dealing some dmg himself".
Sorry for thinking that's the basic definition of TANK..:rolleyes:
Whereas the description of GLA was "Oh, you deal a tiny little bit of dmg so you can't pull hate at all, but we give you nice healing skills to help others and a few aggro-pulling-skills as well so with all your useless def, so you can at least help out RD with tanking"?
Okay, I'm not saying Paladin is not ging to be tanking alot, too.
I'm just saying MRD will have to do a lot more tanking than before..
I don't really mind though, I'm even fine with the way PUG is going to work, because that's something that I want to try before saying it REALLY will be bad.

But what I KNOW is bad is what they did with CNJ and THM, and it makes me upset enough to quit without playing after 1.20.

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Hate gaining abilities:

Temporarily reduces damage you sustain and increases enmity generated by actions executed while effect is active.

Temporarily increases the defense of all party members within range. Generates massive enmity.

Increases target's enmity. Traits may trigger an AoE and a chance to inflict Stun.

Melee attack.
Combo: GLD WS 1, Bonus: Increased enmity.

Increases enmity of all enemies within range. Can only be used immediately after blocking an attack.

Defense and heal abilities:

Temporarily reduces damage you sustain and increases enmity generated by actions executed while effect is active.

Blocks the next attack made against you and grants HP in proportion to damage sustained.

Increases block rate and grants TP for each block made while effect is active.

Grants imperviousness to melee attacks. Effect fades upon moving.

Restores target's HP. When cast on another player, restores 50% of their HP in addition to a portion of your own.

Add to that the amount of enmity generated from heals and I think Glad/Paladin will make an amazing great tank.

I don't see anything good here...

LNC is become DRK without spells

Con the, one who speaks to the elementals, lost all of its elemental skills (told you so)

All reactionary WSs are class specific

Fundimental Final Fantasy Spells have been eliminated or combined

The one saving Grace of Archer, It's manual Ranged Attack, has bee turned into an AUto Attack to satisfied a significant minority.

These changes are horrible. And most of them make no sense..

Someone please explain How you get Master of Fire and Earth from Puglist.

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Originally Posted by Ruri

LOL at the ragequitters quitting before spending 1 second with the new class skill setup.

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I don't see what I have to try out with the way CON is now.
What was said before the list was released:
"When playing solo, you can stay CON with you elemental nukes, but we give you White mage in party play, so you won't nuke there but heal, buff and raise."
I was fine with that, because I love doing both in different situations.

But what the list is saying now is:
"We took away pretty much ALL your elemental skills, even though the elemental aspect is what defines the whole class, lore-wise, so you are nothing but a dumb healbot in party AND solo."

That's not what I want to play, so I see no reason to stay.
What I wanted to play is what archer is now: A class able to deal a lot of dmg in one "mode" with hate-controlling skills, but a supporting class in another "mode" (Bard, in this case).
I don't have the motivation though to start Archer from Lvl 1 now though, because all the people I play with don't have low lvl chars, so I'd rather quit than paying for a game which forces me to abandon the class I loved.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

These are all actions a pug can use to get mp back.

PUG Abl. 4 - Increases evasion and restores MP when an attack is evaded. Effect fades upon evading an attack or after a certain period of time elapses.

PGL WS 8 - Melee attack. Chance to absorb MP when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: PGL WS 5, Bonus: Chance to increase Absorb MP effect.

CON Abl. 2 - Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP.

THM Mag. 2 - Restores MP in proportion to damage sustained. Casts cannot be interrupted while effect is active.

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The level 4 ability is fine for solo, when the mob is going to be hitting the PGL the entire time.

The WS 8 is only a "chance" to restore MP only if that that WS is used. I don't like my only in-party option to be based on a "chance" when I use that particular WS. It pretty much restricts me to using that one WS, since so many PGL abilities seem to rely on MP now. Or I can hope that every single party I am in has a BRD.

The THM ability is based on DMG sustained - this is the same problem as the evasion based MP restore. In a party, I am not supposed to be taking damage, I am supposed to be dealing it.

The CON ability might be useful, although I really don't like having to sacrifice more useful DDing actions in order to require equipping restore MP actions.

PGL had been an entirely melee based class - suddenly it is a magic user. For me anyway, that is my biggest issue - I don't understand why this class is now going to be a magic based. I suppose it is no less frustrating for the CON who hoped for BLM and the ARC who are scratching their heads at BRD.

If I continue to play, I will most likely switch classes - MRD seems to be the closest to what I had originally wanted (a tough fighter with strong non magic based DDing skills that can also tank).

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Originally Posted by Atoli

I don't see what I have to try out with the way CON is now.
What was said before the list was released:
"When playing solo, you can stay CON with you elemental nukes, but we give you White mage in party play, so you won't nuke there but heal, buff and raise."
I was fine with that, because I love doing both in different situations.

But what the list is saying now is:
"We took away pretty much ALL your elemental skills, even though the elemental aspect is what defines the whole class, lore-wise, so you are nothing but a dumb healbot in party AND solo."

That's not what I want to play, so I see no reason to stay.
What I wanted to play is what archer is now: A class able to deal a lot of dmg in one "mode" with hate-controlling skills, but a supporting class in another "mode" (Bard, in this case).
I don't have the motivation though to start Archer from Lvl 1 now though, because all the people I play with don't have low lvl chars, so I'd rather quit than paying for a game which forces me to abandon the class I loved.

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This might not be acceptable recompense for you, but just out of curiosity, did you notice that all first tier elemental spells save Blizzard are cross class?

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Originally Posted by Firon

I don't remember seeing an lancer being an CC type of class or an good AOE class. maybe they can't spam twisting vice anymore but they look good still.

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Trust me, in solo/duo situations it can rule as both cc and aoe master, providing you know what you're doing. :) It won't stand up to 'real' CC classes of course, but when no mage is available...ever tried?
As solo and duo are almost exclusively what I do, removing my mastering of 'control', whatever kind of control that may be, in exchange for heavy damage...well, that just effectively killed the class for me. I don't do DD classes, the only reason I tried out the class in the first place was its heavy support abilities. Playing a DD-support was a very refreshing change. Now, I'm faced with the choice of playing DD-mage or healer-mage. Fun times. I do neither well.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

But what the list is saying now is:
"We took away pretty much ALL your elemental skills, even though the elemental aspect is what defines the whole class, lore-wise, so you are nothing but a dumb healbot in party AND solo."

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* All features are under development and subject to change.
But I understand what your saying, however I like to play all classes so I'm going to try them out. If I don't like one class I'll move on. That's what I liked about ff11 and this class system. You can be whatever class/job without having to create a new character.

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Originally Posted by JGwinters

Hmm. LNC for me has always been about control. Control of the enemy's position and yours, control of the enemy's TP and yours, control of your attack speed, crowd control, etc. Some TP control might be left, but only for yourself not the enemy. Control of position is not there. Crowd control...well, two aoe ws, need I say more? No way to reduce enemy movement or speed, or change yours for that matter. In exchange for removing all that we get...high damage. Whoopee.
In effect: LNC went from support/DD to high dmg DD.

Naturally, specifics aren't known yet but it looks like LNC has been severely nerfed from what its concept used to be. :/

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Haven't been in the Ifrit fight yet, have you?

If that battle is indicative of future content then most of LNC's current skills would have been useless anyway as we're not fight mobs that stand in a line and wait for a lancer to wipe their TP. Blindside + Doomspike II is the life of a LNC atm.

It's hard to call that list a nerf when they are the new glass cannon. I call it balance.