Required Class/Rank failed - Can we have Optimal Rank and Favoured Class back?

Thumb up for new restriction system, now I have to carry 3 different crafting gear sets.

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Originally Posted by mysterytaru

Because unfortunately the community of any given game, much like real life, is composed 60/40 (being generous) of morons/not-morons. Required Rank/Class gear would be like if product warning labels actually physically restrained someone from doing stupid things. It keeps most people from making stupid decisions they otherwise would have. Even with this system, people will still choose the wrong gear but at the very least they'll have class/level appropriate equipment.

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Then we might as well make Final Fantasy Mystic Quest Online if we are going to remove features just because there's room for error.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Name an upside to "favored gear" aside from "I don't want to switch gear/buy new gear every 5 levels" and "I want to look purdy".

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

I like how (almost) everyone against the optimal level system only consider the extreme situations; Like I said, with the stats now working properly, no level 50 conjurer will be wearing gladiator gear for any reason besides town aesthesics, simply because it will suck.

Let's use some different examples, shall we?

- A level 35 GLA could upgrade his level 30 weapon for a level 37. heck, he could even max the spiritbond for that weapon and, as he reaches level 37, materialize it and meld it with another L37 weapon as he reach the proper level.

Then, he reaches level 38 and thinks "hum..I'm a bit bored, gonna rank up my PUG now" and switches to his L32 PUG. But *gasp* the only gear he has with him right now are L35sh....no problem, it's just a bit weaker for the time being.

A bit ahead, he finds a mining node. Being a R40 MIN, he switches classes and goes for a quick mining session. However, he failed to notice an aggressive monster, who attacks him...but he didn't have all his gear stripped due to changing classes, it just became less effective, but still effective enough to soak up some damage and allow him to run away.

And he did all that without stressing over his inventory with 3 entirely different gear sets just to do such trivial activites! This, was / is the beauty of the optimal level system. I know I will miss those times.

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

I wish I could say that I understand this fear.. but I don't.

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It's not my fear. You asked why the restriction, I was giving you my opinion about the possible answer, as to why the devs put the restrictions out there: to create variety.


Also, amen to Tsuga's reply. Yeah the uniqueness is the word I wanted.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Most (all?) gear does not favor a single class, and that is part of what makes the system so unclear. There are also plenty of pieces of gear like my example.

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I'm quite aware of that. Just as I'm sure you're aware that not all required gear has only one required class. And I hope you don't take offense to this, because I mean none, but I read your post as "I don't like how the system works now, so it should be a completely different system."

I never said that there should be no change to the system, simply that the change shouldn't include a required class/level. I'm also not saying that I have all of the answers for how it would best work, just that I think it can, and I have a few ideas on what would make it work better.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Favored gear only benefits those who don't want to upgrade their gear regularly, and who want to look pretty. Sorry but those aren't good enough reasons to complicate a system that is self explanatory in every single other RPG.

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Updating gear has nothing to do with it, as you can wear anything below your level with the required system, so that just strikes me as an ad hoc excuse to look down on people for not agreeing with you. And if aesthetics weren't important in the game, all gear would look the same, so I don't agree with your pompous dismissal of it. Having gear similar to my example of Belt 3 doesn't complicate anything, on either end. There are ways it could work without abandoning the system entirely.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Regardless of what you think about the confusion that "optimal gear" causes, the fact that it is easier to balance class locked gear has been stated by Yoshida. Get out of here with your claim that it's got "no upsides".

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I guess I should have specified that it has no upsides for the player..?

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Edit: I should also make note that class/level locked gear was voted for in the player poles at the beginning of the year, so we're obviously not the only ones that took issue with the "optimal class" gear.

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Totally fair point, but I'd simply argue that it was more a matter of wanting a more easily-understandable system than a more restricted one, and-

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

And this was when we had a) more players, b) a smaller concentration of maxed out players, and c) no endgame.

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Is the fact that there were more people who were less experienced with the game at the time supposed to be another point in its favour? Those people didn't understand the system, so they wanted to go to one they already understood - those were the options. How about a simplified optimal system? Or at least a more transparent one?

Again, a required system isn't horrible, just unnecessary, and unfortunate for those of us who enjoy the freedom an optimal system provides.

This thread makes no sense since there is still optimum gear in the game that's not dated so i don't get the point of this thread....

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

I'm quite aware of that. Just as I'm sure you're aware that not all required gear has only one required class. And I hope you don't take offense to this, because I mean none, but I read your post as "I don't like how the system works now, so it should be a completely different system."

I never said that there should be no change to the system, simply that the change shouldn't include a required class/level. I'm also not saying that I have all of the answers for how it would best work, just that I think it can, and I have a few ideas on what would make it work better.

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You don't really have any answers for how the system benefits the game, or the players outside of aesthetics, and the fact that you liked the old system. I admit, I liked the old system at first too, not having to carry a dozen gear sets around made sense. However the more I leveled, the more I realized that I was gimped by not carrying as much gear. I also realized that it was confusing trying to figure out what gear is best for me without referring to websites outside of the game (ZAM and YG namely). No player should be forced to look outside of the game when he's simply updating his gear. Like I've said several times, optimal gear should be self explanatory, and there is nothing more obvious than telling people what class and level their gear is for. The whole locking aspect is for balance, as I've said before.

Also, it's not that I don't like the system, I don't like that the "favor" system is misleading, and confusing - especially for newer players (y'know, the people they're trying to attract to, and keep in the game). Just because you're used to it does not make it user friendly.

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Updating gear has nothing to do with it, as you can wear anything below your level with the required system, so that just strikes me as an ad hoc excuse to look down on people for not agreeing with you. And if aesthetics weren't important in the game, all gear would look the same, so I don't agree with your pompous dismissal of it. Having gear similar to my example of Belt 3 doesn't complicate anything, on either end. There are ways it could work without abandoning the system entirely.

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Updating gear refers to downgrading to lower level gear when you are switching classes as well. Regardless, the only upsides to the system are what I stated, and it is still not a good enough reason to keep it.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

snip.

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This falls under the category of "I don't want to switch gear", so you're just proving my point.

Also, when you're using high level gear on a low level character it's usually gimped to the point that it's worse than gear at your level. And by the logic of that "upside" the game should just have high level gear, and skip low level gear entirely, which does not foster a healthy crafting community or economy. Low level crafters would (and could) never sell their gear. The focus should be on balancing low to mid level gear so that it is better than any high level gear for low to mid level classes. This makes it easier for the devs to balance dungeons, instances, leves, materia, and any other content throughout the entire game.

Edit - I also love that you guys are completely avoiding the fact that Yoshi P stated that class/level locked gear benefits the game as a whole in regard to content and class balancing. Further proof that your entire argument is based on "I was used to it, I liked it, I want to look pretty, and I don't want to have to switch gear". Stop being so damn selfish.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

But anyway. Couldn't you argue that FFXIV had a optimal/favoured system for a year and it worked fine. No complaints.

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I've seen lots of complaints from non RPers that it's a bad system.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I've seen lots of complaints from non RPers that it's a bad system.

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The fact that the system was voted out by the player poles says enough. It's going away because it was flawed, just like the MW, and just like the Action Bar. This game needs serious streamlining if it wants any share of the MMO market, and this is just one of the many lumps of fat that needed to be trimmed.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

You don't really have any answers for how the system benefits the game, or the players outside of aesthetics, and the fact that you liked the old system.

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I don't think that players should have to justify to you, or anyone, why they want to equip a piece of gear, regardless of their level/class. And the only reason you've given for why you disagree is:

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

The whole locking aspect is for balance, as I've said before.

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which isn't a benefit for the player.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Just because you're used to it does not make it user friendly.

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What's with thinking just because I'm against a required level/class, that means I think the system is great as-is? I don't. I think it could be greatly simplified - for instance, to only favor a single class, or type of class (DoW, DoM, etc.). I'm saying that we could change the system and make it clearer in a way that still doesn't restrict players from equipping whatever they want. So you either disagree that that's possible, or you still wouldn't be in favor of that system.

The merchant that I got my bow to switch to archer from only sold arrows that require level 8 to use. :|