The Real Problem with Parsers

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Party finder exists to not have to worry about carrying people. If you queued for a random group? Guess what? You do exist to try to get through the dungeon with that random group.

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Duty finder exists to do content, not try to get carried. If you're with a random group? Guess what? You do exist to not hinder the group.

Seriously, the general playerbase here needs to improve. If that means having to remove people from groups in order to get through to them, then so be it.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Kicking them from the group without trying to help them get better first isn't going to do anything, and don't pretend like it will.

And if those people cared about their time, they could use PF or their FC to ensure a well-geared and knowledgeable group.

There are tools in-game to avoid getting random people that may be bad. If anyone chooses to not use them, that is not the fault of anybody but themselves.

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Kicking them from group after trying to help them and them being unreceptive has a decent chance to work, though, especially if it's happening consistently. I've already made it clear in both these parser threads that I fully believe in trying to help people get better before resorting to kicking them, and you should know that. >_>

As for PF, PF is still random people who may be bad. It's just a smaller set of people to choose from and would probably lead to a longer queue time (I haven't tested this, granted). As for FC/LS, that works reasonably, but people don't always want to run dungeons at the same time.

There is no problem with parsers. The problem is with people refusing to have any sort of personal accountability.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Duty finder exists to do content

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And kicking people because they're not up to your standards prevents them from getting content done.

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If that means having to remove people from groups in order to get through to them, then so be it.

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Statements like this reaffirm SE's reasons for not putting them in.

It's surprising to find so many people trying to support a position by constantly undermining it.

I mean, if you're trying to convince them that they're wrong if they think that parsers will result in more people kicked, outright saying that they'll totally result in more people kicked probably isn't the best way to go.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

If you queued for a random group? Guess what? You do exist to try to get through the dungeon with that random group.

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And if you aren't getting through because one person is a giant anchor around the neck of the party? Lookie there, kick the person, get through content.

Sorry but this game needs parsers. There are too many dps players who do not fully comprehend how their classes are supposed to work. I had a summoner pulling 400 dps on A4. 400! I was afraid to say anything because I'm sure the response would have been something along the lines of "mind your own business, I'll play my class how I want". But the problem is, this person was decked in 200 and 190 gear. He has intentions of playing late content. He's causing the rest of the group to suffer for his lack of dps.

There's no mystery, wonder or sense of uniqueness in that. That is a bad player being a bad player and if he is trying to play end game content, that needs to be addressed to him.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

And kicking people because they're not up to your standards prevents them from getting content done.

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Until they improve themselves. It's not like they have no ability to improve. If they choose not to improve, the rest of us have no onus to carry them.

Again, we both know I'm not saying to kick people outright as soon as you see a low DPS parse. But people unwilling to improve to the point that they can complete content...don't get to complete content. How is this a bad thing?

To add to this conversation, I finally downloaded ACT and the overlay maybe 2 months ago. I never realized how poorly my dps was until I started parsing myself. I noticed I was doing 300-400 lower than what was required of me at my item level. So instead of blaming others for causing me to conform to a certain gameplay, I reassessed my own gameplay, watched some guides, fixed my hotbars and rotations, and now I can pull top dps like the best of them. I was called out before for doing poor dps even when I thought I was doing pretty good. I was a little hurt but realized I probably could do better. Now I pull top dps and I've never had a single person complain about my damage.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

And if you aren't getting through because one person is a giant anchor around the neck of the party?

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I've never been stuck on duty finder content that has repeatedly failed due to low DPS. Maybe I'm just so awesome I make up for anybody who's low. Generally any duty finder content has failed because of lack of attention to mechanics, not DPS.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Kicking them from group after trying to help them and them being unreceptive has a decent chance to work, though

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It also has a decent chance of not working because you kicked them and wasted their queue, which could just lead to them being pissed off at you and even further not caring. If it's happening consistently, they could just go on to think that the community is just full of elitist jerks.

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I've already made it clear in both these parser threads that I fully believe in trying to help people get better before resorting to kicking them, and you should know that.

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Right, and as I said before, though not to you, you don't matter. Even if everybody in this thread said they'd try to help before kicking (don't kid yourself, it would be a lie for at least some if everybody in this thread said it), there will be people who won't. Those are the people that matter.

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PF is still random people

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But at least you get control over classes and can check gear beforehand to get a better idea.

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If they choose not to improve, the rest of us have no onus to carry them.

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"Low DPS" is not an option on vote kick. And it never should be.

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But people unwilling to improve to the point that they can complete content...don't get to complete content. How is this a bad thing?

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Whose standpoint are you asking from? The person who may just want to clear content but doesn't care to be all serious about it which is why they don't bother with a static? That'd be bad for them.
From the standpoint of a person who's grouping randomly but unwilling to deal with who they randomly get? Might be okay for them.
For a company who would probably lose players if low DPS is such an all-encompassing problem because they just keep getting kicked from runs and don't see the point in continuing to pay for a game full of elitists? I think this is the most important standpoint, don't you? Remember, SE is, above all else, a company. If they start losing players due to the people trying to cleanse the casual filth out of THEIR duty roulettes, they're losing money.

the ACTUAL problem with DPS Meters is this:

DPS Meters create an environment where anything that is not DPS is marginalized, because the only thing that truly matters is how much DPS you do and where on the DPS chart you finish.

regadless of your role in the group Tank, Healer, or DPS, your DPS is the only accepted measure of whether you are a good player or not.

judging from what people have said about the high level boss fights in this game, this is a mentality that the FFXIV Devs have wholly embraced and are promoting.

and as long as "DPS is all that matters" mentality is encouraged by the Dev Team by making evry encounter just a series of DPS checks(Rather than creating unique mechanics that challenge both Tanks and Healers as well) then there is no reason to NOT put a damage meter in the game.

Personally, I would not stop at a DPS Meter, I would include an entire suite of statistic Meters, including Damage Taken, Aggro Generated, Healing, Heals Per Second, Overhealing, Damage Taken per Attack, etc.

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Originally Posted by JMadFour

Personally, I would not stop at a DPS Meter, I would include an entire suite of statistic Meters, including Damage Taken, Aggro Generated, Healing, Heals Per Second, Overhealing, Damage Taken per Attack, etc.

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So basically ACT?