Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

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Originally Posted by Renathras

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You agree with her points, but want to spend so damn long arguing semantics and posting treatise and wanting point by point discussions. Keep in mind, her video wasn't about casual content, she was going to discuss that later. So yea, we have been on bloody point. You and people similar, either arguing semantics, arguing that there is no issue or arguing about Zepla's mannerisms and attitude.

Literally give up.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Apparently, anything but the topic.

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No, I discussed the video. Im also the person who posted the link in this thread to her follow up video. Just because I’m on my way to bed and don’t feel like summarizing everything I said about the video eons ago doesn’t mean I discussed “anything but the topic.”

It was nice of Supersnow to recap for you though.

The crux of the situation ultimately seems to be a perceived lack of 'timesink' content, which is the inevitable result of Field Zones like Eureka and Bozja being heavily criticised for two expansions in a row.

The devs took this criticism to heart, and decided that allowing players to create their own form of grind for relic weapons was the safest option.

I believe the main issue is that whilst these relics ARE an actual grind if you happen to do multiple of them (which it appears a significant number of people do), if you only do a single relic and don't happen to be an endgame crafter (which is a fair few people), then each individual step so far would seem trivial.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

The crux of the situation ultimately seems to be a perceived lack of 'timesink' content, which is the inevitable result of Field Zones like Eureka and Bozja being heavily criticised for two expansions in a row.

The devs took this criticism to heart, and decided that allowing players to create their own form of grind for relic weapons was the safest option.

I believe the main issue is that whilst these relics ARE an actual grind if you happen to do multiple of them (which it appears a significant number of people do), if you only do a single relic and don't happen to be an endgame crafter (which is a fair few people), then each individual step so far would seem trivial.

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To me they feel trivial even if I get a bunch of them. I don’t like them being tied to the bizarre comedy of Hildebrand and it’s absurdity, and thereafter just buying things from Rowena’s assistant like any other tomestone gear. None of this feels interesting or epic. And what little story behind the relics is just dumb. (My personal opinion / bias of course.

Also to me the relics had some prestige they no longer have. A sign someone put a lot of effort into the journey in a given expansion. I’m still impressed by older completed relics because I know the effort they took. These new ones just feel like tome vendor gear.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

The crux of the situation ultimately seems to be a perceived lack of 'timesink' content, which is the inevitable result of Field Zones like Eureka and Bozja being heavily criticised for two expansions in a row.

The devs took this criticism to heart, and decided that allowing players to create their own form of grind for relic weapons was the safest option.

I believe the main issue is that whilst these relics ARE an actual grind if you happen to do multiple of them (which it appears a significant number of people do), if you only do a single relic and don't happen to be an endgame crafter (which is a fair few people), then each individual step so far would seem trivial.

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The problem is that they took the development time that would have gone towards field content and did basically nothing with it. While ALSO increasing the time between patches.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

To me they feel trivial even if I get a bunch of them. I don’t like them being tied to the bizarre comedy of Hildebrand and it’s absurdity, and thereafter just buying things from Rowena’s assistant like any other tomestone gear. None of this feels interesting or epic. And what little story behind the relics is just dumb. (My personal opinion / bias of course.

Also to me the relics had some prestige they no longer have. A sign someone put a lot of effort into the journey in a given expansion. I’m still impressed by older completed relics because I know the effort they took. These new ones just feel like tome vendor gear.

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As a Relics Enjoyer myself, most of them don't hold much prestige to me as they're just Timesinks, aside from maybe the ARR relic which still requires a ton of commitment and a willingness to tolerate poor game design for glam.

The Ultimate weapons are the ones with universal prestige tied to them in this game, as they require a substantial degree of player competence, a solid understanding of your job, and the commitment to prog for weeks, if not months at a time.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

As a Relics Enjoyer myself, most of them don't hold much prestige to me as they're just Timesinks, aside from maybe the ARR relic which still requires a ton of commitment and a willingness to tolerate poor game design for glam.

The Ultimate weapons are the ones with universal prestige tied to them in this game, as they require a substantial degree of player competence, a solid understanding of your job, and the commitment to prog for weeks, if not months at a time.

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Maybe prestige is a bad word. For me maybe admiration? I don’t have any completed fully from prior expansions as I didnt have it in me. I have respect for those who did.

For EW its like “oh they had some extra tomes.” Not the same.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

The crux of the situation ultimately seems to be a perceived lack of 'timesink' content, which is the inevitable result of Field Zones like Eureka and Bozja being heavily criticised for two expansions in a row.

The devs took this criticism to heart, and decided that allowing players to create their own form of grind for relic weapons was the safest option.

I believe the main issue is that whilst these relics ARE an actual grind if you happen to do multiple of them (which it appears a significant number of people do), if you only do a single relic and don't happen to be an endgame crafter (which is a fair few people), then each individual step so far would seem trivial.

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Yeah, mostly agree with this.

You don't HAVE to have an Exploration Zone for it (ARR and HW didn't...per se), but it definitely helps.

The issue with EW is there's nothing to really grind on. Criterion? No rewards to grind for. Island? It's all done within a few minutes a week using a spreadsheet. Deep Dungeon? Sure, if you can find 3 other people that care (and also not many rewards to grind for). Midcore? Totally lacking in content this expansion. Casuals? MSQ then nothing. Hardcores? Okay, they got most of what they normally get, but they're getting bored of that formula; in theory they got Criterion, but see above on that.

Casuals got next to nothing, Midcore got nothing, and Hardcore got kind of what they usually get...but no midcore content to grind on when they get done with the hardcore stuff.

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And it'd be nice to have some interesting things to do in the open world. ARR had some FATE chains and open world dungeons (Ixal/Kobols/Amoolja/Sahagan). Would be nice to have open world elite areas again.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Yeah, mostly agree with this.

You don't HAVE to have an Exploration Zone for it (ARR and HW didn't...per se), but it definitely helps.

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In ARR, especially, it seemed like the world itself kind of covered that niche --especially per the Anima grind from FATEs-- and easily could have gone further (GC rewards, exp converted to other rewards when level-capped, more and more involved FATE chains, and even --if they were interested in prototyping [the tech for] new opportunities-- open-world scaled difficult areas, greater utilization of Hunts, etc.).

On a tangential note, it makes me wonder what the impact might be the enjoyability of open-world content if zones just weren't so equally and linearly paced? Sure, a couple zones per expansion get split into upper- and lower-level halves, but what if we got rid of the hit chance reduction against mobs of higher level than the player and just let every zone run a far larger gamut of levels and activities? Personally, I'd happily take one fewer zone and the remainders' being far more fleshed out in terms of available repeatable gameplay (rather than primarily being backdrops for the MSQ alone). Or even let the zones function disparately, such that each sort of acts in some way like its own form of (or, more subtly, its own take on) Field content.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

So, maybe you can answer it. What, in EW (and, looking forward, DT), is long lasting content that will keep players who are current (ie not still progressing through MSQ and unlocking prior expansion content), engaged and logging in on a regular basis. What is there, for veteran players, to be excited about?

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I'd have to look up the source again since it was right after fanfest, but I remember there being an interview with Yoshida where he talked about wanting to continue variant/criterion, do exploratory zone content again, and come up with a new battle system in DT alongside thinking about doing another DD. So there is potential in DT for repeatable stuff to do assuming they follow through with everything.