Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

On a side note, if you do not do HT from the flank, you do not get the RoT proc. If you do, it procs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FyrmurlFloerasksyn

Quick question: how much extra dps over the long run would heavy thrust at flank be, compared to staying at rear with it?

---

It's 70 potency every 20 seconds. So that's a 3.5 PPS difference.

According to EMX's worksheet, it's a loss of around 15 DPS at i135.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FyrmurlFloerasksyn

No i mean heavy thrust. I tested it and If you are at the flank and use heavy thrust, it does more damage. Use it at the rear, does less damage.

---

I hope that's intended, we'd still need to hit the positionals to maximize dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

Yup! At i135, it'll be around 8 DPS loss unbuffed. Essentially, there's a very small gap now between good and lazy players.

Also, I'm considering just saving Life Surge for BFB. Yeah sure, it's a DPS increase to just use it off the bat now at every Full Thrust, but nothing lines up. It doesn't even line-up with Full Thrust correctly either.

---

really? my IR/LS/FT lines up perfectly now just did a 4min parse at i119 was at 553dps :) i cant wait to get full BIS i135

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ish007xx

really? my IR/LS/FT lines up perfectly now just did a 4min parse at i119 was at 553dps :) i cant wait to get full BIS i135

---

Would you mind giving some more info ? :)

Food, party buff, on dummy, pots, ilvl of the weapon, was the crit rate uncaracteristically high ?

Thanks !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iselore

I hope that's intended, we'd still need to hit the positionals to maximize dps.

---

If you wanna max your dps then yes it still needs to hit flank, however it means you're not punished as harshly if you can't get to flank (say in t11 you are tethered at rear and you don't trust the person to move with you or something)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Casper

Would you mind giving some more info ? :)

Food, party buff, on dummy, pots, ilvl of the weapon, was the crit rate uncaracteristically high ?

Thanks !

---

no food or pots,party buff yes, weapon i130, im ilvl119 could check me out on loadstone for the rest of my gear, the crit rate was 28% (just got it) some1 else was parsing me im on ps3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ish007xx

no food or pots,party buff yes, weapon i130, im ilvl119 could check me out on loadstone for the rest of my gear, idk the crit rate some1 else was parsing me im on ps3

---

Thanks ! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ish007xx

really? my IR/LS/FT lines up perfectly now just did a 4min parse at i119 was at 553dps :) i cant wait to get full BIS i135

---

What's your Skill Speed at? I'm currently running 481, so that might of been my issue. And what's your IGN so I can check you on the Lodestone?

Christmas has come early my fellow Dragoons. Loving these buffs.

On a side note, I've noticed that the Shiva Ex weapons have been buffed to i115. I'm currently still working on my Nexus, so would the Shiva spear be better for now? My Novus is melded with 15 Acc, 30 Crit and 30 Det (couldn't afford more Crit and Det at the time - will respec in the future). I don't know what the new stats on the True Ice Spear are, but at i110 it had 44 Accuracy and 31 Crit. Is the extra weapon damage and slightly more crit worth losing 30 Det?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BristolRuss

Christmas has come early my fellow Dragoons. Loving these buffs.

On a side note, I've noticed that the Shiva Ex weapons have been buffed to i115. I'm currently still working on my Nexus, so would the Shiva spear be better for now? My Novus is melded with 15 Acc, 30 Crit and 30 Det (couldn't afford more Crit and Det at the time - will respec in the future). I don't know what the new stats on the True Ice Spear are, but at i110 it had 44 Accuracy and 31 Crit. Is the extra weapon damage and slightly more crit worth losing 30 Det?

---

Yes it's worth it.

True Ice is better, DPS wise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

What's your Skill Speed at? I'm currently running 481, so that might of been my issue. And what's your IGN so I can check you on the Lodestone?

---

SS 374 IGN-Ish khan http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2968949/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pluvia

Dragoons have a magic defense boost so why should dragoon have higher defenses then the other melee AND take less damage when using BfB i wasn't being serious but when you answer like that. Explain to me why dragoon should have higher physical defense and the same magic defense as the other melee i could understand if their magic defense was lower by like 10 or so

---

Fist of the earth and dragoon physical defense. Now compare Ramparts and Foresight. Why? Because it's exactly the same thing. More physical defense, or more % damage reduction? Yeah, Fist/Ramparts is even better than that. Besides, dragoons have to deal with ability locks more than any other class - except maybe caster LB3. Mantra and Second Wind, too, you know. Real ones, traited.

Bards move wherever the hell they want.

Ninjas move faster, don't have any positional requirement that could lead them into danger in case of LOLNIN, have a skill that makes them invulnerable for a couple of seconds to a single physical attack, teleportation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

/snip

---

your missing the point completely sure monks have fist of earth and ninjas have perfect dodge but on the other hand dragoons now have more health same magic defense better physical defense, more hp and less damage taken from blood for blood i was originally making a joke and could care less just how i could care less when monk/ninja had the piss poor extra defense from their gear having strength/dex point is right now dragoons have the strongest defenses on all fronts without having to lower DPS (I'm looking at you fist of earth). Again let me say i don't really care not like its a game changing thing lol

I think I am in need of an advice. In 2.4 I was the follower of saving most of my cooldowns for B4B, I used jump and sweep in between but it was fine as they would be up for B4B and I would have high burst and I thought it was the way to go, but now that the new patch hit it have made me think should I change my ways. I tried parsing on a dummy until my tp ran out and the numebr was 530 and I felt it was quite low as I had parsed 522 day before patch and now I tried using everything when they were up again instanly and then I parsed 552, so my fellow Dragoon could you give me some advice how I should manage my cooldowns in patch 2.45. I ask for an advice, because I play on a PS4 so I can't really do extensive parsing as I always have to ask for someone to do it for me and I can't really look at the data mch as it isn't my parse.

When I go on a dummy, I don't use food/xpots/potent poisons / mercy stroke as this way it's easy to always repeats the same stuff on a dummy. I had party buff though


This is my gear.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTA6

this my character
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/6485590/

Had to post ariyala gear calculator as currently it shows my warrior gear in lodestone.



So if someone could help or give me an advice it would be greatly appreciated.

1) Make sure you're hitting your positionals properly. You must hit Chaos Thrust from the Rear and Heavy Thrust from the Flank still to have increased DPS.

2) Use your Jumps, especially "Jump" as soon as it comes off cooldown. You should always have it every other Jump is buffed by BFB. First jump will have BFB, second will be unbuffed, 3rd is buffed, 4th is unbuffed etc. It'll flow much easier. (EDIT: This should only happen if you save your buffs for bursts like I do, not optimal in any way what so ever)

3) Always time Life Surge so it's used with your Full Thrust. Don't wait for buffs. At your Skill Speed you should have no problem achieving this.

522 * 1.06 = 523.32. You've hit your new DPS right on the head of the nail. No need to worry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

1) Make sure you're hitting your positionals properly. You must hit Chaos Thrust from the Rear and Heavy Thrust from the Flank still to have increased DPS.

2) Use your Jumps, especially "Jump" as soon as it comes off cooldown. You should always have it every other Jump is buffed by BFB. First jump will have BFB, second will be unbuffed, 3rd is buffed, 4th is unbuffed etc. It'll flow much easier.

3) Always time Life Surge so it's used with your Full Thrust. Don't wait for buffs. At your Skill Speed you should have no problem achieving this.

522 * 1.06 = 523.32. You've hit your new DPS right on the head of the nail. No need to worry.

---

hmm my 1st jump is with IR/BFB/PS, 2nd unbuffed, 3rd IR/PS, 4th BFB, 5th unbuffed, 6th IR/PS, 7th BFB etc.. idk if u saving PS for BFB everytime but i dont and u can get so much more buff jumps with new patch. PS always lines up while IR is on and then when BFB ready u still get a buffed jump. Works out great for me

How hard are you fully buffed FTs hitting for after patch? Cant wait to get home and try out the changes.

Multiply your old max Full Thrust by 1.09 and you get your new highest hit :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ish007xx

hmm my 1st jump is with IR/BFB/PS, 2nd unbuffed, 3rd IR/PS, 4th BFB, 5th unbuffed, 6th IR/PS, 7th BFB etc.. idk if u saving PS for BFB everytime but i dont and u can get so much more buff jumps with new patch. PS always lines up while IR is on and then when BFB ready u still get a buffed jump. Works out great for me

---

Yeah, I'm kind of used to just saving everything for bursts, like it was in patch 2.0/2.1. I got used to it like that. I was also Raid Leader back then - I had to simplify and min/max my rotation so I could put out damage and still manage my raid whilst avoiding AOE's.

But if you want to maximise your DPS, then yes, you're absolutely 100% correct with that new Jump Rotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

Multiply your old max Full Thrust by 1.09 and you get your new highest hit :)



Yeah, I'm kind of used to just saving everything for bursts, like it was in patch 2.0/2.1. I got used to it like that. I was also Raid Leader back then - I had to simplify and min/max my rotation so I could put out damage and still manage my raid whilst avoiding AOE's.

But if you want to maximise your DPS, then yes, you're absolutely 100% correct with that new Jump Rotation.

---

yeah man this new patch is awesome, cant wait to go into coil tonight and maybe get more drops :), saw a BFB FT crit for 2.1k without LS lol imagine if i used pots as well lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

Also, I'm considering just saving Life Surge for BFB. Yeah sure, it's a DPS increase to just use it off the bat now at every Full Thrust, but nothing lines up. It doesn't even line-up with Full Thrust correctly either.

---

For the i110 stuff, it never really did. The issue at 60 seconds was that if you used it for any old Full Thrust (instead of holding it for BfB) and had much of any skill speed, the GCD rotation noticeably would get back to Full Thrust before Life Surge was off cooldown sooner or later.

I love these buffs, though they come too little too late I am now far too heavily invested in poetics toward my ninja to switch back without putting myself seriously behind. ;[

That said, when y'all start hit up FCoB with your fancy new drgs lets see those parses. :D

Any console players noticed the difference in target lock?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SolarMisae

I love these buffs, though they come too little too late I am now far too heavily invested in poetics toward my ninja to switch back without putting myself seriously behind. ;[

That said, when y'all start hit up FCoB with your fancy new drgs lets see those parses. :D

---

Yea, I'm not switching back either, I have been waiting for nin for far too long and it quite simply, for me, is more fun than drg.

That being said, why not collect FCOB gear for drg until it gets caught up to your nin and switch back?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noxotic

After some brief testing, life surge doesn't line up as cleanly with blood for blood as before, 20+ seconds of waiting at 341 skillspeed, so popping it on full thrust seems to make more sense.

---

Leveling my Ninja made me appreciate skill speed again and more and more fights seem to favor skill speed now as the ilvl and natural damage goes up. I'm 449 skill speed and I find that if I pop my B4B during my Chaos Thrust combo, the time I have to wait to pair B4B and LS again is either perfect or maybe 4-5 seconds off before B4B is up again. Haven't really tested this but something I notice while light farming Garuda HM today.

Still at i112 right now and I'm hitting more often at 1700s with a full buff FT. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/6756180/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SolarMisae

I love these buffs, though they come too little too late I am now far too heavily invested in poetics toward my ninja to switch back without putting myself seriously behind. ;[

That said, when y'all start hit up FCoB with your fancy new drgs lets see those parses. :D

---

Ha. I feel your pain. I was torn between poetics for my ninja or dragoon but ended up doing my goon since it would make light farming easier and is still my main. I was gonna split the two first by getting both chest and legs for them but ended up investing into my drag once I started noticing the extra damage.

i122 with dread wep and no crafted gear

sustained 577 dps for over 8 mins http://imgur.com/qr1vaKl this is with a few mistakes getting used to life surge timing. i130 with more practice could sustain 600 i believe. Still alot below monk of course by ~30 dps.

3 min parses vary from 580-620 depending on crit rng.

Nice buffs for DRG mains. I believe a MNK still holds the first melee spot due to better dps and dragonkick debuff. So the second melee spot in an optimal set-up is a toss up between NIN/DRG. The competition is even closer now with NIN needing tp after ~4.5 mins so the bard will need to sing peaen on long fights regardless of goad.

So let me get this straight. How should Life Surge be used now? On cooldown (Full thrust obviously) or aligned with something else?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

So let me get this straight. How should Life Surge be used now? On cooldown (Full thrust obviously) or aligned with something else?

---

After some test runs (depending on your skillspeed), should be used on cool down unless b4b is less than 20 seconds away. It used to line up a lot nicer with blood for blood cause of the slightly longer cd, but I'll let the experts come up with a final answer instead of random preliminary testing. 1st two life surges are at the same time as b4b, 3rd and 4th off gcd, 5th and 6th same tI'm as b4b, but that's at 341 skill speed, and I haven't done it longer than that, and I don't know if it's optimized either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

1) ...Heavy Thrust from the Flank still to have increased DPS.

---

Unless something isn't working as advertised...


Heavy Thrust: Weapon skill direction requirements for the additional effect have been abolished.

Edit:

DERP! Still has the potency boost from flank. My mistake...I missed that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

Is what Heavy Thrust does now.

---

Yeah...caught that after I took another look at it. Just the bonus 15% to damage lost the positional.

EDIT:

Yup :P Also, you need to hit Heavy Thrust from the Flank if you want to use Ring of Thorns combo.

...I pretty much main my ninja (was arcanist...but...NINJA!) but I'm planning to level up my lancer for invig and b4b...and get mrd to 15 so I can go ahead and grab drg while i'm at it. Sssooo...yeah. I'm still familiarizing myself.

Well, we know that Crits increase our damage by 1.5.


Life Surge every 60s with Full Thrust
360*0.5 = 180/60s = 3 PPS

Life Surge every BFB (80s)
(360*1.3)*0.5 = 234/80s = 2.925 PPS

Life Surge every 50s
LS 1. (Falls on CT) 250*0.5 = 125
LS 2. ( Falls on FT) 360*0.5 = 180
(repeats like this)
125 + 180 = 305/2 = 152.5 /50s = 3.05PPS

Interesting... I've not made a mistake have I? Because lol using Life Surge on Chaos Thrust... Halp

EDIT: I've been testing using Life Surge at 50s intervals, so using it on CT, FT, CT, FT, CT, FT. Do not attempt it with 410+ skillspeed. Each time Life Surge will be available on the Chaos Thrust, Internal Release, Power Surge, Jump and Leg Sweep all come available again. Some fine tuning here and there, maybe slight alterations to the opening burst rotation to re-distribute IR + PS + Jump and I think this might work. I've noticed around 6-9 dps increase at 481 SS, but my god is it messy when they all come off cooldown at the same time.

For the smoothest way to do it (if you open BFB, IR, PS, Jump like I do):

HT - ID [IR] - DE [LS] - CT [PS] - PH [Jump] - TT [Sweep]

I'm thinking it may be best to have our opening CD rotation as IR - BFB - PS - Jump.

I'd like other people to test and see what they think as well and if they do or don't notice any DPS increases.

Hey guys, Chaos Thrust description ingame say: 150 when executed from target "Flank"
Bug? Shoundn't be "behind" or what?

It's a tooltip error. Yes, it's the rear. And it's 250 potency if combo'd in the rear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

It's a tooltip error. Yes, it's the rear. And it's 250 potency if combo'd in the rear.

---

Ok, thanks very much

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

I'm thinking it may be best to have our opening CD rotation as IR - BFB - PS - Jump.

I'd like other people to test and see what they think as well and if they do or don't notice any DPS increases.

---

I open heavy thrust ir+bfb impulse drive pot disembowel ps leg sweep ct jump phleb dragonfire true thrust spineshatter vorpal life surge true thrust

At 467 skillspeed, I can't make the life surge for the ct. They came up at the exact same time and I'd have to delay gcd to make it.

The timer adjustment on jump and Life Surge has made the button positioning on my gamepad uncomfortable. I'm going to have to re-figure out where the placement is going to go from here on forward. Still, these buffs are well appreciated, even with me in a group that is static with me as a DRG anyways.

It works best with a much lower Skill Speed. 389 so far is working very, very well without having to slow down my button presses on purpose. 408 was also half decent, but I had to delay the CT/FT every couple of Life Surges by a few split seconds. I think for simplicities sake, keeping Life Surge with Full Thrusts (60s intervals) works the smoothest for all skill speeds and much less risk involved. Having to slightly slow-down your cooldowns at higher SkillSpeeds will hinder your DPS, but it's nice to see that there is something else that does provide a slight DPS increase that we can work on.

Ganna echo Dervs sentiments.

38x area works nicely.