Connecting the DoTs: A Summoner Guide

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

A couple interesting Data Points.

Over 1680s (28 Minutes) - Ifrit Testing

I should have done a full base Crit/SS as something to compare these results to, but to give an example.

4% Crit Chance was almost a 1% increase in Pet damage through Enhanced Pet
397 SPD was close to 3.5% increase in Pet damage.

I'd be interested in a combination of really high Crit/SPD to see how it would compare.

I wish I could record a proc chance, to determine how much the SMN would benefit from additional SPD.

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How did you get 5 more burning strikes with two different parses at 1680s, when both are at base SS?

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Originally Posted by Minorinz

I feel it should be about capturing data and analyzing it, not having a conclusion/assumption ready then working in reverse trying to prove it.

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Isn't this the opposite of what you've been doing though? Everything you've said has no analysis or weight to it, other than eye-balled, subjective statements. That's what's getting on my nerves lol.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

How did you get 5 more burning strikes with two different parses at 1680s, when both are at base SS?

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I think it was/is the difference in CRT he has. The higher CRT with Enhanced Pet Actions procing, would create additional Spell Speed due to it mathematically happening more because of CRT increase.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Isn't this the opposite of what you've been doing though? Everything you've said has no analysis or weight to it, other than eye-balled, subjective statements. That's what's getting on my nerves lol.

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nope, not really. Still nothing on ss yet but we have something on crit.

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Originally Posted by Charybdis

I think it was/is the difference in CRT he has. The higher CRT with Enhanced Pet Actions procing, would create additional Spell Speed due to it mathematically happening more because of CRT increase.

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This exactly. The higher crit rate got a higher SS buff proc rate therefore giving a higher effective SS over the course of the parse.

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Originally Posted by Minorinz

nope, not really. Still nothing on ss yet but we have something on crit.

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Sigh. I give up.

It's days like this I wish I had 60 SMN ;_;

Haha oh the irony. So let's just, for a second, assume that spell speed ends up being really good. The 20% spell speed increase from the pet trait is considerably more potent than what you would get from gear. But it's spawned with a crit. LOL good luck with that math.

Also of note, Ifrit's autoattack is unaffected, meaning whatever the benefit from spell speed ends up being, Garuda will benefit more from it as it applies to nearly of her damage.

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Originally Posted by Sidra

Haha oh the irony. So let's just, for a second, assume that spell speed ends up being really good. The 20% spell speed increase from the pet trait is considerably more potent than what you would get from gear. But it's spawned with a crit. LOL good luck with that math.

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This math is just terrible. There's so many factors involved. XD

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Originally Posted by Sidra

Also of note, Ifrit's autoattack is unaffected, meaning whatever the benefit from spell speed ends up being, Garuda will benefit more from it as it applies to nearly of her damage.

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What makes this even worse is that Ifrit has a much higher rate of maintaining the Spell Speed buff but benefits from it less while Garuda maintains less but benefits more. In the end it may even out but still that's just a mess to math out and I'm glad I'm not the one doing this lol.

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Originally Posted by Sidra

Haha oh the irony. So let's just, for a second, assume that spell speed ends up being really good. The 20% spell speed increase from the pet trait is considerably more potent than what you would get from gear. But it's spawned with a crit. LOL good luck with that math.

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It's actually really easy to simulate by normalizing how often procs occur. Still, those numbers show that the average SS over time you gain from the crit procs is still nothing compared to what you get from gear. Also, the value of those procs scales with gear, so really, you'll want both. But we'll never be able to incorporate the value of those procs into the crit weight itself, that will all have to come out of sims.

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Originally Posted by Minorinz

nope, not really. Still nothing on ss yet but we have something on crit.

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Don't you realize that the same analysis determines the values of both? If you don't have anything on SS, you don't have anything on Crit. They're both relative to each other, so unless you know how _relatively good_ SS is, you have no idea how _relatively good_ Crit is. You can't understand the value of one without understanding the value of another.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Sigh. I give up.

It's days like this I wish I had 60 SMN ;_;

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You don't need a level 60 SMN to recognized a horrible argument for what it is.

It's a 20% chance to happen on a Crit. You have 650 Crit.

((650-354)/(858*5))+0.05 = 11.9% CRT

Meaning, you have a 2.38% to get the Crit SS buff each time your pet strikes.

I assume Pets AAs are also at 3s, at base SS of 354:

Ifrit: 4.70% per 3s
Garuda: 2.38% per 3s

As for SkillSpellSpeed interaction... I cannot comment on it. I don't know how Skillspeed interacts with pets, and I may have to ask the good people at /r/math to give me a hand to create a formula.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

It's a 20% chance to happen on a Crit. You have 650 Crit.

((650-354)/(858*5))+0.05 = 11.9% CRT

Meaning, you have a 2.38% to get the Crit SS buff each time your pet strikes.

I assume Pets AAs are also at 3s, at base SS of 354:

Ifrit: 4.70% per 3s
Garuda: 2.38% per 3s

As for Skillspeed interaction... I cannot comment on it. I don't know how Skillspeed interacts with pets, and I may have to ask the good people at /r/math to give me a hand to create a formula.

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Skillspeed isn't an option on SMN gear. Wouldn't waste too much time on that point, you got enough to work on.