ARR Gil Cap Reduction

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Originally Posted by Stromgarde

A tempest in a teapot. Prices self-correct within a short period of time, and with 2.0 coming out odds are pretty good they'll either wipe the price history entirely or adjust it commensurate with the re-denomination.

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Off course it will be wiped, lot of items won't even be there anymore as well... Won't make any sense to open the game in 2013 with a price history of October 2012 listed... New game, new Worlds (lot of people will move around, new comers will join as well), new gil value, new economy.

I hope this works. I don't think so. As I have said before FFXI has proven that there are more then enough people out there with more Money then brains. No matter what you do they won't think twice about spending huge sums of Gil for items jacking prices up across the board. If that happens we will be spending most of our time Gil farming instead of playing the game. I understand that with an 8 figure cap there will be a price limit, just curious about how many items will be sold at or near cap. So, unless SE plans to make most high end items RA/EX or they make GC Seals the primary currency there will be problems. I know I will get flamed for this post but I have seen it too often in FFXI to think it will work.

The influx of new people is probably going to change the value of things more than knocking off the last 0 anyway. I suspect in 2.0 we will go through an entire economy re-balance even without this change.

That's without the effect of the new crafting and gathering systems... That will surely have a huge effect.

We also have no idea what other changes may come. Will they change drop rates of skins and such. How about crystals and gil drops? Will recipes be added/changed? Will the spiritbinding rate stay the same and will any changes be made to what materia comes from a particular item? If even 1 of these things change the economy will be changed significantly.

In the end people will still sell and buy things at the price they find acceptable and it will be ok... People who jack up prices today will continue to do so in 2.0, people who undercut will do the same. It will be no different than today.

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The whole reason for this change is to rectify the increase in cost of items relative to the price of arrows, since archers in A Realm Reborn will no longer need arrows.

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It's pretty late and I'm sleepy.

Does this mean that because we no longer have to pay for arrows we have too much money?

Can someone explain it in plain english please?

I never play archer/bard anyway so can I just keep my gils thank you.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

If a potion costs 10 gil, but takes 2 minutes to make (gil). Or a potion takes 100,000,000 gil, but takes 2 minutes to make (gil).

Which system would you prefer to look at. Which system looks like the inflation god just took a giant dump on it?

You can say its perspective, makes things look better. Or you can say SE is hiding the bad economy, ^_^.

Either way it will look better and put more value in the larger numbers as they are harder to reach.

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We aren't talking about the difference between 10 gil and 100 Million gil, we're talking about the difference of 1 digit, so if you use your example, 10 gil or 100 gil. or you could take it the other way what if 1 potion = 1 gil. It only really effects how things are preceived at the higher prices, and it's all just preception in the first place, it won't change the value of anything, it'd just change the preception of the value. If it takes as much time/effort to get 1 mil then as it takes to get 10 mil now, that 1 mil isn't inheritly more valuable, it would be the same value if everything else is reduced by the same ratio. It just might seem more valuable.

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Originally Posted by Rizon

I hope this works. I don't think so. As I have said before FFXI has proven that there are more then enough people out there with more Money then brains. No matter what you do they won't think twice about spending huge sums of Gil for items jacking prices up across the board. If that happens we will be spending most of our time Gil farming instead of playing the game. I understand that with an 8 figure cap there will be a price limit, just curious about how many items will be sold at or near cap. So, unless SE plans to make most high end items RA/EX or they make GC Seals the primary currency there will be problems. I know I will get flamed for this post but I have seen it too often in FFXI to think it will work.

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Except in the current game you can't really monopolize anything and high tier crafting materials are accessible to everyone in one way or another. Things sell for a ton of money when they are new but once people figure out where it comes from the price will drop to something reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I do. And buying a, say, level 10 sword for a few thousand Gil is just weird. I always felt like the last digit should be removed for prices to make more sense. I am happy that Yoshi seems to feel the same way.

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You're just having a Stockholm syndrome. Nothing can justify screwing honest players over.

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Originally Posted by TheFrozenOne

We aren't talking about the difference between 10 gil and 100 Million gil, we're talking about the difference of 1 digit, so if you use your example, 10 gil or 100 gil. or you could take it the other way what if 1 potion = 1 gil. It only really effects how things are preceived at the higher prices, and it's all just preception in the first place, it won't change the value of anything, it'd just change the preception of the value. If it takes as much time/effort to get 1 mil then as it takes to get 10 mil now, that 1 mil isn't inheritly more valuable, it would be the same value if everything else is reduced by the same ratio. It just might seem more valuable.

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Thats pretty much what I just said lol.

You asked why they are doing it. In a nut shell I said perception, which is an important aspect of a game.

Unless I am mistaken thats what you are saying in the quote (only change is perception and not value).

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Originally Posted by Trotsky

You're just having a Stockholm syndrome. Nothing can justify screwing honest players over.

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Except ... relatively ......... it will all be exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by Trotsky

You're just having a Stockholm syndrome. Nothing can justify screwing honest players over.

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That's not what Stockholm syndrome is.

So if someone with 10m will now have 1m and someone with 10k will have 1k? 9m vs 9k loss? Want to carry out most you can from this would make sense to have max characters with gil split evenly amongst them, then after AAR you could recollect your gils. Ijs if it's 1/10 for everyone

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

That's not what Stockholm syndrome is.

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They don't understand basic math, you want them to understand Stockholm syndrome?

Why is this an issue? If you have close to cap gil, you clearly aren't spending it...so it's worthless to you.

I currently have 8.2 million gil, so I'm going to lose 820k...still leaving me with about 7.4 million gil. I don't mind at all, since most of my gil has come from selling junk to an NPC. I'll just end up doing the same thing in A Realm Reborn and making it all back.

People spend more than this in one materia attempt, and have no problem with it. Just pretend you tried a huge meld attempt right before the servers went down and you lost.

EDIT:
I'm dumb. Disregard this. :3

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Originally Posted by Majoga

So if someone with 10m will now have 1m and someone with 10k will have 1k? 9m vs 9k loss? Want to carry out most you can from this would make sense to have max characters with gil split evenly amongst them, then after AAR you could recollect your gils. Ijs if it's 1/10 for everyone

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Nevermind just checked my math, with 4 characters split 20m at 5m each you're still only left with 2m in the end...

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Why is this an issue? If you have close to cap gil, you clearly aren't spending it...so it's worthless to you.

I currently have 8.2 million gil, so I'm going to lose 820k...still leaving me with about 7.4 million gil. I don't mind at all, since most of my gil has come from selling junk to an NPC. I'll just end up doing the same thing in A Realm Reborn and making it all back.

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Umm...no your gil is going down to 820k gil...

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Originally Posted by Majoga

So if someone with 10m will now have 1m and someone with 10k will have 1k? 9m vs 9k loss? Want to carry out most you can from this would make sense to have max characters with gil split evenly amongst them, then after AAR you could recollect your gils. Ijs if it's 1/10 for everyone

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EDIT: Majoga didnt really need this reply as they found it out before I posted. But ill leave it for others confused.

If you divide your money among 10 characters evenly and then multiply each characters gil by 1/10 you would have the same result as taking the original sum and multiplying it by 1/10.

100 gil * (1/10) = 10 gil

100 gil / 4 characters = 25 gil each ;

Now take the sum of (4 characters) * 25 gil * (1/10) = 10 gil.

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Originally Posted by Majoga

Nevermind just checked my math, with 4 characters split 20m at 5m each you're still only left with 2m in the end...

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Yay! You worked it out on your own :D I was debating whether to reply

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Originally Posted by TheFrozenOne

Umm...no your gil is going down to 820k gil...

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Oh, reading comprehension. We'll HAVE 1/10 our gil, not lose 1/10.

That's it, I'm quitting!

Why can't people do math.

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Originally Posted by seuki

Why can't people do math.

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They can, to an extent. They know that 100 > 10, but they just don't take it conceptually far enough like 'Oh everything/everyone in the entire game will be adjusted around this making it the same as it is now in a different way'

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Originally Posted by KaplanHomahru

They can, to an extent. They know that 100 > 10, but they just don't take it conceptually far enough like 'Oh everything/everyone in the entire game will be adjusted around this making it the same as it is now in a different way'

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Be nice it requires evil fractions, multiplication and division required to understand :P (playing with ya).

Though there are some people who just read a vague translation and are coming here going "wtf?" and come out alright once they understand.

This is a fairly decent way to handle RMT. it's effectively removing 90% of gil from circulation. most of which is probably on RMT characters.

The economy right now is way out of alignment right now anyway. the majority of the gil I make comes from NPC sources. the majority of stuff I buy is from PCs. I'm pretty sure a lot of other people are the same way.

So no gil is really exiting the system. there is also not really any gil sinks to remove money from the system. (and by that I mean things that require you to give gil to NPCs) the biggest one right now is the taxes on the wards. easily remedied through trading.

I personally think this is a good move. This is a classic example of why some people need other people to make their decisions for them.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Be nice it requires evil fractions, multiplication and division required to understand :P (playing with ya).

Though there are some people who just read a vague translation and are coming here going "wtf?" and come out alright once they understand.

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Yeah, this thread is probably 99% kneejerk replies, and then people have time to think about it.

This really makes me not want to play anymore :(

Amount of currency is decreasing
Wealth relative to the most consistent prices in the market is not changing
The volatile side of the market will adjust accordingly given enough time
If you look at it in the right way, those with less gil right now may end up losing less wealth directly following the version change, as they will be less likely to be able to afford the prices that exist in the volatile areas of the market before those prices adjust for the re-valuation that is occuring.

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Originally Posted by Onisake

This is a fairly decent way to handle RMT. it's effectively removing 90% of gil from circulation. most of which is probably on RMT characters.

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And how? Everything is divided by 10. Again it's like when we moved from our national currency to euro. Did we became X times more poor because of that? Or did it have any direct impact on the economy itself? No.

Your 10 gil in a 100 trillion gils economy are worth exactly the same as your 1 gil in a 10 trillion economy.

(I used 100 and 10 trillion as random, could use any value, wouldn't change anything.)

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Originally Posted by Chinook

No way they'll slash their prices by 9/10, and no way you'll slash the prices on items you sell by 9/10 either (since you'll set your price according to the same market).

So ... business as usual.

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Only an idiot would buy something for more than the NPC sells it...

So yeah... business as usual

With all the undercutters in the wards, it won't take more than a few days for the price of items in the wards to go down

This is lame....

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Originally Posted by Flower

This really makes me not want to play anymore :(

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Why? It has no impact on you at all. You're not losing anything in terms of Gil. It's just an adjustment of a value.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Only an idiot would buy something for more than the NPC sells it...

So yeah... business as usual

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No one buys anything from NPC's just throwing it out there. Not only in this game but in every other MMO as well. The majority of the gear and items are all crafters T^T this really really REALLY freaking sucks. Here I was looking forward to 2.0 and now im dreading it. I dont even think i want to play anymore.

Furthermore if they start selling all the crafted gear on NPC's then where does that leave the crafters? nowhere, its just all around horrible for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Aku

They don't understand basic math, you want them to understand Stockholm syndrome?

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considering what we endured for the past two years, yes it could be called to some extend a variant of the Stockholm syndrome. More like the FFXIV Fan syndrome.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

[...]
I'm sure there are some thoughts about selling items before they become 1/10th what they are currently, but as I wrote in #1, 3, and 4 above, the NPC item purchase prices and items that are useful in battle will change to go along with the balance changes in A Realm Reborn.
[...]

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When I read this I can't stop thinking that they will only adjust - balance - upward rather than further down, and it does make it look more and more like a disguised gil-wipe than anything else to me. Only time will tell I guess.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

And how? Everything is divided by 10. Again it's like when we moved from our national currency to euro. Did we became X times more poor because of that? Or did it have any direct impact on the economy itself? No.

Your 10 gil in a 100 trillion gils economy are worth exactly the same as your 1 gil in a 10 trillion economy.

(I used 100 and 10 trillion as random, could use any value, wouldn't change anything.)

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Exactly. The difference here is that all wealth and value has been scaled along with the change, as opposed to one country's/continent's economy in relation to the rest of the world, thereby affecting... Nobody*! :D

*(except perhaps RMTs whose plan was to take in-game wealth and translate it to RL-wealth)

This is pretty much like telling everyone that all the CG models, backgrounds, weather, etc. is all going to be scaled down to 1:10 size. Because everything is still the same size relative to everything else in the game, with no special exceptions, it doesn't actually affect anyone.

What happened to them not taking anything from us? T^T bunch of liars!

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Originally Posted by Flower

No one buys anything from NPC's just throwing it out there.

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lol you shouldn't make such sweeping statements. They're always wrong.

I always buy Mineral Water, Table Salt and Black Pepper from NPCs because they're over priced in the wards and too cheap to bother spending the time farming. Don't forget Natron, which you need to make Felt, unless you want HQ there's no point in farming that either. Flax is also my occasional NPC buy. Along with parsley and sometimes Ala Mhigan Mustard. Chicken Eggs... The list goes on and on.

This'll make a double melded weapon (for relic) worth somewhere around 3-4m which seems way more approachable to newer players than 30-40m... despite it being the exact same thing.

I welcome this new change and look forward to playing with lower numbers.

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Originally Posted by Flower

What happened to them not taking anything from us? T^T bunch of liars!

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They.are.not.taking.anything.from.anyone.

Seriously, try to go beyond the shock and knee-jerk reaction and THINK about it.

I am not talking about materials I am talking about gear. Also SE told us they would not take anything from us, now they are taking 9/10 of all of our gil. Not only did they lie to us, but they also hurt the majority of the loyal player base who has supported them for the past 2 years in the creation of 2.0.

Just bec you buy materials from an npc to make that gear that you can doesnt mean it makes it right nor does it change the fact that the majority of the players do not purchase from NPCs. I am not talking about materials I am talking strictly about gear. Just bec you can make all your gear doesnt mean that is the case for everyone els. So how about you stop acting biased towards the situation and start thinking about the player base as a whole instead of only yourself.

We don't buy things from NPCs because the prices are ridiculously outrageous. In Final Fantasy XI I hoarded NPC materials for crafting. Why would I buy an item in this game from a vendor for 4,652 Gil from a vendor when a player sells it for 1,000?

Anyone who thinks this is going huge negative impact on them self individually is fool. The player controlled economy is not gonna continue to stay as inflated as it is, simple economics will tell you prices on the market will scale down to around 1/10th in 2.0, it may not happen right away, will take a couple weeks or even a month but in the long run this wont affect anyone greatly.