Just discontinued subscription due to Wuk and increased wokeness across SE corp.

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Originally Posted by LuciferMournstar

Much deserved rant

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Mate, you really aught to take a break and do something that makes you happy, interacting with this person is not doing you any favours.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

Take care of yourself.

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See, even the trolls have a heart in our community. We're all just like one big happy family.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

Nope, just a dude who found it somewhat difficult to admit that he'd been stalked and harassed by a predatory gay man in his youth, who has been pushed to the point of anger by idiotic activists reducing his experience to incel bigotry. I thought we all agreed that victim blaming was pretty bad conduct, but at least 2 of "empathetic" crowd have done it so far. Which just cements his point about not being able to speak out about the experience for fear of ridicule. It's also been made very clear that sympathies would be with him if he were a woman, but because he's a guy, you give him all the same toxic shit. A little bit a self-awareness please.

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I've dealt with that at a job I used to have. Gay coworker harassing several of us, even after repeated attempts to get them to stop. He weaponized HR against us, because of course he was the "victim" and we were all just being bigots for not wanting to deal with all the extremely overly sexual and creepy things he'd say and do to us on a regular basis. It's absolutely insane the level of protection people like that get, because companies are afraid of the backlash for punishing someone for their behavior if they fall into the right groups.

And before anyone goes off on my "straight privilege" bullcrap, go screw yourself. I'm bi. The dude was just an absolute creeper.

Reading the rants in here and I say this with all the sincerity in the world, please get therapy. There's some legit rage in here that needs to be dealt with through professional help.

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Originally Posted by JimCasey_RF6

See, even the trolls have a heart in our community. We're all just like one big happy family.

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Typically trolls have taste and standards.

You're just a weirdo.

Waking up to see the new insanity

https://media.tenor.com/y9FLrh6pSEUA...oklyn-nine.gif

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Originally Posted by Connor

Forum moderators when they open this thread lol

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*assign ticket to <insert_lead_moderator_here>*

Thinking this thread is not long for the forums. People bringing in abuse stories to a gaming forum just isn't appropriate. Please get professional help, we can't help you here.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

Look man, I'll be genuine with you for a moment-

Yes, if it's true that this person did this to you, it was wrong and it shouldn't have happened to you.

All the same, you should be able to recognize that this person was an individual, a weirdo, and doesn't represent ALL LGBT individuals.

The likely reason people didn't believe you then is probably why people don't believe you now. You aren't demonstrating that awareness, and you are instead applying your isolated experience to the whole of a group of people.

I've had VERY unpleasant experience with specific individuals who happened to be trans, I don't let that color how I see or interact with OTHER trans people.

I think you genuinely need to take a break off the forums, you seem exceedingly heated and probably need to disconnect from the internet for a while.

Take care of yourself.

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I do recognize it. I do know it was isolated incident that rarely happens, and doesn't represent the vast majority LGBTQ++ and such. What I'm getting at is there is a minority of VERY vocal in those those groups, that want to actively ruin the lives of straight white males. As I said too, I don't let it color ALL, only those who would "take it too far". The problem is this vocal minority have a LOT of power right now. To the point even the government is bending the knee. What would you have me do, just keep quiet about it? Hope and pray it doesn't go any further, and they don't gain even more power than they already have? To this vocal minority, it doesn't matter how "tolerant and accepting" I am. I will always be "The Devil" (yes, the irony of my in game name is not lost on me.) I will always be an oppressor. I will always be bigoted garbage. I will always never have deserved anything in my life. All simply due to the skin color/gender/sexuality. I am not one of them, so i'm automatically horrible, simply because I exist.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. It's not the majority, i'm not lumping all into it, it's a minority of the LGBTQ++ and such that i'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

People bringing in abuse stories to a gaming forum just isn't appropriate. Please get professional help, we can't help you here.

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As much as I agree with that, please guys, also stop telling people to 'go get therapy', call them 'shizos', 'psychos' or whatever. It's just as inappropriate to use mental illness as insults.

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Originally Posted by Pepperblue

sheep will adopt any buzzword their pet politicians throw at them even if they don't understand the meaning

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Like "bigot", "racist", "misogynist", and "literally Hitler"???

https://media.tenor.com/x-IKsGdXAMwA...risy-meter.gif

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Originally Posted by Aniise

As much as I agree with that, please guys, also stop telling people to 'go get therapy', call them 'shizos', 'psychos' or whatever. It's just as inappropriate to use mental illness as insults.

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Na, you bring that nonsense to a gaming forum, be prepared to get told to get help.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Na, you bring that nonsense to a gaming forum, be prepared to get told to get help.

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Yikes...what a take.

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Originally Posted by Aniise

As much as I agree with that, please guys, also stop telling people to 'go get therapy', call them 'shizos', 'psychos' or whatever. It's just as inappropriate to use mental illness as insults.

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It may sound direct, but it's also true. I was actually worried for another poster in the past who showed very clear signs of needing help. I thought these forums were a terrible place for her, since people made fun of her or prodded her along to act out more and more.

I don't recommend being personally vulnerable here because for better or worse the forums have a somewhat aggressive culture that is easy to fall into, and one won't often find much kindness and compassion - especially in a controversial thread.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Na, you bring that nonsense to a gaming forum, be prepared to get told to get help.

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I guess then there is this... oh well.

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Originally Posted by Aniise

Yikes...what a take.

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did you enjoy Dawntrail?

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Originally Posted by LuciferMournstar

What I'm getting at is there is a minority of VERY vocal in those those groups, that want to actively ruin the lives of straight white males.

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It's 2014 again, I swear to god we traveled back into gamergate.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Na, you bring that nonsense to a gaming forum, be prepared to get told to get help.

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Yeah, I think some people have forgotten this is a game.

Since this forum clearly has no mods, what's you guys's favorite RMT websites?

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

Since this forum clearly has no mods, what's you guys's favorite RMT websites?

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They'll be here today, take care lol. They just take the weekends off. (i know you're joking :D)

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

They'll be here today, take care lol. They just take the weekends off. (i know you're joking :D)

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lmao I've spent more time (unpaid!) moderating for-fun fandom forums than these mods have spent on this one.

Let's be real here for a second:
The kind of people who use "woke" unironically usually aren't... the best kind of people.
There is a similar term to woke in German, and it's "Gutmensch", a term often used by extremely conservative, far-right and Neo-Nazis to defame left or left-leaning. Most of those people are usually bigots.

You use woke unironically you set yourself up for mockery, or being called a bigot, or both.

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Originally Posted by Aniise

As much as I agree with that, please guys, also stop telling people to 'go get therapy', call them 'shizos', 'psychos' or whatever. It's just as inappropriate to use mental illness as insults.

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I'm not using go to therapy as an insult. I myself have been to therapy for my own issues in the past. Considering what this person's posts are talking about, they do actually need to get some help to deal with a lot of their rage over something personal that happened to them. They're currently dealing with it in a way that's destructive.

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

lmao I've spent more time (unpaid!) moderating for-fun fandom forums than these mods have spent on this one.

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I volunteered to moderate a game's community server some time back.

I got treated better by the players themselves than the moderation and administration team I was a part of. (Was like working with competing high-schoolers and the proverbial "principal" refused to established a proper order and structure to things.)

Never again. Was somehow substantially more stressful than my actual job.

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

Since this forum clearly has no mods, what's you guys's favorite RMT websites?

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Just ask HighlanderClone, or titan men, or skiros, or brofists, or sparklyastrologian, or whatever new account he's using today. I'm sure he can direct you.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Let's be real here for a second:
The kind of people who use "woke" unironically usually aren't... the best kind of people.
There is a similar term to woke in German, and it's "Gutmensch", a term often used by extremely conservative, far-right and Neo-Nazis to defame left or left-leaning. Most of those people are usually bigots.

You use woke unironically you set yourself up for mockery, or being called a bigot, or both.

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The kind of people who say this are the kind of people who first took the term, popularised it, used it to death and now complain about its usage when criticised for doing things that once upon a time, you'd have called "woke" unironically. The term originated in American Black culture and referred to someone being racially aware, "awake" to the systemic racial problems... And then it was appropriated by extreme left activists and extended to any sort of awareness of oppression. Being "woke" used to be a good thing for them, it used to be a badge to signal to each other that you're both on the same wavelength. The entire reason the opposition from the centre and from the right uses the term is because the left popularised it, and now you're trying to disavow the term as some right-wing dogwhistle. This is the bed that the left-wing activists made for themselves, and now they don't want to sleep in it.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

The kind of people who say this are the kind of people who first took the term, popularised it, used it to death and now complain about its usage when criticised for doing things that once upon a time, you'd have called "woke" unironically. The term originated in American Black culture and referred to someone being racially aware, "awake" to the systemic racial problems... And then it was appropriated by extreme left activists and extended to any sort of awareness of oppression. Being "woke" used to be a good thing for them, it used to be a badge to signal to each other that you're both on the same wavelength. The entire reason the opposition from the centre and from the right uses the term is because the left popularised it, and now you're trying to disavow the term as some right-wing dogwhistle. This is the bed that the left-wing activists made for themselves, and now they don't want to sleep in it.

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https://media1.giphy.com/media/2xIOi...=200w.gif&ct=g

Is this about FF anymore, or did I accidentally stumble into r/Politics?

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Originally Posted by Tachion

If marginalized groups tolerate their intolerant oppressors, the oppressors ultimately eliminate the marginalized groups and their tolerance with it.

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Explaining me what ''paradox of tolerance'' is don't make it less of an hypocrite excuse.

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Originally Posted by Tachion

It obviously doesn't have to be in a literal sense of killing them, but limiting or flat out removing any agency they have.

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Yea you see when they tried that out in the US after the civil war, The south response to being sanctioned and having some agency removed was to ignore the anti-slavery law and to create KKK.

But you know, When MLK did protest peacefully all while tolerating people targeting him, it shifted the majority of the population opinion and now racist group in America lost tons of power and pressure and are now rightfully considered as bigots.

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Originally Posted by Tachion

It's really not a difficult concept to grasp but you'll do Simone Biles level mental gymnastics to rationalize why people should just accept your prejudices.

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What mental gymnastics? You're the one brining up excuses to disguise the fact you can't even folow your own definition of tolerance.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

The kind of people who say this are the kind of people who first took the term, popularised it, used it to death and now complain about its usage when criticised for doing things that once upon a time, you'd have called "woke" unironically. The term originated in American Black culture and referred to someone being racially aware, "awake" to the systemic racial problems... And then it was appropriated by extreme left activists and extended to any sort of awareness of oppression. Being "woke" used to be a good thing for them, it used to be a badge to signal to each other that you're both on the same wavelength. The entire reason the opposition from the centre and from the right uses the term is because the left popularised it, and now you're trying to disavow the term as some right-wing dogwhistle. This is the bed that the left-wing activists made for themselves, and now they don't want to sleep in it.

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Conveniently ignoring the thread title and first post.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

It may sound direct, but it's also true. I was actually worried for another poster in the past who showed very clear signs of needing help. I thought these forums were a terrible place for her, since people made fun of her or prodded her along to act out more and more.

I don't recommend being personally vulnerable here because for better or worse the forums have a somewhat aggressive culture that is easy to fall into, and one won't often find much kindness and compassion - especially in a controversial thread.

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True and I can totally get behind that.

Being actually worried is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the spiteful use of mental illness as some kind of insult against people as a whole. I don't condone that, but I can also see that, while there are some people here who I commend about being civil about this and showing their genuine concern about the poster who was vulnerable in here, there are some who think it's a-okay to go after another minority by using these kinds of illnesses as a funny way to get quick cheap laughs.

I guess I'll stop this now, I wanted those people to maybe think about their choice of words, since they claim to be concerned with the wellbeing of minorities.

As for this being a game forum, yes. It is. That doesn't change we're all humans behind our screen and should try to be civil.

Over and out /waves

Quick Edit:

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

I'm not using go to therapy as an insult. I myself have been to therapy for my own issues in the past. Considering what this person's posts are talking about, they do actually need to get some help to deal with a lot of their rage over something personal that happened to them. They're currently dealing with it in a way that's destructive.

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This is what I mean by being genuinely concerned. This is okay. Using words like 'shizo' to pull someone down is not.

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Originally Posted by Bopsheezi

Is this about FF anymore, or did I accidentally stumble into r/Politics?

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I mean the topic title itself complaining about "wokeness" should have tipped you off before you even walked in.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

I mean the topic title itself complaining about "wokeness" should have tipped you off before you even walked in.

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Yeah, but it at least STARTED on topic.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Conveniently ignoring the thread title and first post.

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Conveniently ignoring a decade or so of overbearing left-wing activism in all spaces of the internet and in public life, all of whom called themselves "woke" until very recently. But thanks for not even attempting to engage with anything I actually said regarding the term. OP only used it because it's been in the public consciousness for quite some time now.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

Conveniently ignoring a decade or so of overbearing left-wing activism in all spaces of the internet and in public life, all of whom called themselves "woke" until very recently. But thanks for not even attempting to engage with anything I actually said regarding the term. OP only used it because it's been in the public consciousness for quite some time now.

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The very topic complained about, using the word "wokeness".
What a surprise.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

Conveniently ignoring a decade or so of overbearing left-wing activism in all spaces of the internet and in public life, all of whom called themselves "woke" until very recently. But thanks for not even attempting to engage with anything I actually said regarding the term. OP only used it because it's been in the public consciousness for quite some time now.

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The concept of "woke" is also most likely why an entire expansion was centered around such an unlikable character, and why, (at least for English), the voice actor was chosen to play Wuk Lamat despite lacking the required talent; "diversity" over meritocracy. (Even the character design of Wuk Lamat shows that some thought was put into ticking "diversity" boxes, such as character model, weapon poses, upper body clothing somewhere between a sports bra and a chest binder, as well as the character concept itself--a quasi-androgynous masculinized female (?) Mary Sue.) "Wokeism" is also certainly why, be it in these forums or anywhere else in the real world, straight-white-male-Caucasians, those resembling that category, or those who believe that diversity is the indirect effect of a population's constituency--not an overt goal used to subvert or oppress the native population, are not permitted to criticize those within the panoply of the critical race theory hierarchy without being baselessly accused of some type of discrimination.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

The very topic complained about, using the word "wokeness".
What a surprise.

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A term that has been popularised by left-wing activists for the past decade or so, like I've now said three times. The problem is that you're saying "OP used the term woke and is therefore a bad person" but the reality is that, because "woke" has been a word in public discourse for a long time, it's common enough that anyone with any sort of criticism will be using it as a label... Because it's the label they gave themselves. Left-wing activists now cringe at the term they painted all over themselves as centrists, anarchists, conversatives, libertarians and every other corner of the political compass criticises them for. It may come as an additional surprise to learn that the vast majority of people reject the ideology completely, both in the West where it's been perpetuated and in the rest of the world where your "tolerance" wouldn't be tolerated.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

A term that has been popularised by left-wing activists for the past decade or so, like I've now said three times. The problem is that you're saying "OP used the term woke and is therefore a bad person" but the reality is that, because "woke" has been a word in public discourse for a long time, it's common enough that anyone with any sort of criticism will be using it as a label... Because it's the label they gave themselves. Left-wing activists now cringe at the term they painted all over themselves as centrists, anarchists, conversatives, libertarians and every other corner of the political compass criticises them for. It may come as an additional surprise to learn that the vast majority of people reject the ideology completely, both in the West where it's been perpetuated and in the rest of the world where your "tolerance" wouldn't be tolerated.

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You're trying to argue semantics while OP decries woke compleining about SE and the VA.

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Originally Posted by TKOtheKDR

The concept of "woke" is also most likely why an entire expansion was centered around such an unlikable character, and why, (at least for English), the voice actor was chosen to play Wuk Lamat despite lacking the required talent; "diversity" over meritocracy. (Even the character design of Wuk Lamat shows that some thought was put into ticking "diversity" boxes, such as character model, weapon poses, upper body clothing somewhere between a sports bra and a chest binder, as well as the character concept itself--a quasi-androgynous masculinized female (?) Mary Sue.) "Wokeism" is also certainly why, be it in these forums or anywhere else in the real world, straight-white-male-Caucasians, those resembling that category, or those who believe that diversity is the indirect effect of a population's constituency--not an overt goal used to subvert or oppress the native population, are not permitted to criticize those within the panoply of the critical race theory hierarchy without being baselessly accused of some type of discrimination.

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I will say that despite my positions in this thread, I didn't find DT to be particularly "woke" especially in comparison to a lot of Western media and video games. I never liked Wuk Lamat, but it's for most of the reasons everyone's said... I just feel like she was very forced and we followed her around like a lost puppy, being let off the leash to attack something every now and again. But I don't think the game is overly woke content-wise... It's just the same tropes we've seen before in anime about the power of friendship, and Wuk is really just another naive anime girl. I also skipped every cutscene that wasn't voiced after the first few levels of MSQ, so I'm not in a position to really sit and criticise the finer points of the MSQ. If anything, my own personal issues with DT are just FF burnout. The reason I've kind of peeked my head in here and said my piece is because the community is insufferably woke and the dogpiling on you is nothing but spiteful. With each new post telling you to leave, or that you never belonged in the first place, they prove that point.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

You're trying to argue semantics while OP decries woke compleining about SE and the VA.

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You're trying to paint the OP as some kind of bigot due to his choice of words, which would be the words anyone would use to criticise the ideology. Engage with his arguments, not his word choice and then you can criticise me for wanting to "argue semantics."

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

I'm not using go to therapy as an insult. I myself have been to therapy for my own issues in the past. Considering what this person's posts are talking about, they do actually need to get some help to deal with a lot of their rage over something personal that happened to them. They're currently dealing with it in a way that's destructive.

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How is more therapy going to help? Have me talk to a therapist, while what is going on continues to happen? This is personal, but not on a one-on-one. I do not see my kindness and acceptance as weakness. Though you have to understand, some do. I'm not talking about those who belittled me as "weak and pathetic", (even though those people are just as vile), i'm talking about those who would take my tolerance and acceptance for granted. Those who would exploit it for personal gain. Do you really think there are not smaller vocal groups of LGBTQ++ and such that would love to have privileges and be openly bigoted because it's acceptable?

You want me to go to a therapist, but what good is that going to do? Make it so I feel better about my tolerance and acceptance being taken for granted when it does happen? Make me accept that there are a vocal minority that not already has powerful influence, but are getting stronger? Make me feel like it's OK that when I do speak out about injustices toward me or straight white males in general, i'm to be admonished? Make me feel it's OK when everything I've gone through and worked for is reduced to "Straight White Male Privilege", and I don't deserve anything? That my feelings and who I am as a human being doesn't mean a damn thing to them? That I am "lesser" because of it?

These types of people do exist, and they aren't even trying to hide it. All because they have a "virtuous shield" to hide behind, and because people like me won't say anything out for fear of being vilified.

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Originally Posted by TKOtheKDR

"Wokeism" is also certainly why, be it in these forums or anywhere else in the real world, straight-white-male-Caucasians, those resembling that category, or those who believe that diversity is the indirect effect of a population's constituency--not an overt goal used to subvert or oppress the native population, are not permitted to criticize those within the panoply of the critical race theory hierarchy without being baselessly accused of some type of discrimination.

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I mean this is it, this is why I can't take Wuk Lamat haters seriously.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

IYou're trying to paint the OP as some kind of bigot due to his choice of words, which would be the words anyone would use to criticise the ideology. Engage with his arguments, not his word choice and then you can criticise me for wanting to "argue semantics."

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When someone uses woke like that it's never in good way. Ypiu've been trying to deflect and shift blame in the last 4 replies or so, but clearly it hasn't worked.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

When someone uses woke like that it's never in good way. Ypiu've been trying to deflect and shift blame in the last 4 replies or so, but clearly it hasn't worked.

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No, I've been trying to point out to you that you're completely ignoring that old adage about "never judge a book by its cover" and unironically posted a comment effectively saying: "This guy used the term woke as a criticism, and therefore is a bigot." It's been said many times in this thread that the ones who are claiming the most empathy, care and love for their fellow man are also the ones throwing labels, spewing the most toxic vitriol and actively bullying other members of the FFXIV community along the grounds of political opinion. Every time the hypocrisy is pointed out, we get "muh PaRaDoX oF tOlErAnCe" as if having a name for your dehumanising behaviour somehow excuses it. This is why the pushback against activists is so hard amongst the gaming community... We don't want your nonsense here, we just want to play video games and escape from the monotonous existence of life, but you continually don't allow us to do that by forcing real-world political issues into the forefront of these games. Be it in the Triple-A gaming market where games like Spiderman 2 were met with insane criticism due to it pushing a gender agenda, or way of looking at the world... And we also see these SAME games get released in the international market with many of these features mysteriously removed. It's very clear that Western developers are forcing these ideas into games, so it's a valid criticism that a game has gone "woke" when it starts to include these themes and symbols. Personally, I disagree with the OP, I don't think that FF is very woke but at least I'm engaging with his argument instead of dismissing him as some kind of hateful slime that's beneath me.