"In from the Cold" Scenario, any way to skip it?

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Originally Posted by Ransu

You're in someone else's body.....That duty was supposed to be pure fear and suspense, thus why Fandaniel says to "scurry around like a rat" which is why it was so good. It was perfect for the plotline and skipping it would ruin the entire setup.

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I find it funny how Zenos is able to use his own power when in our body, yet the WoL seemingly forgets any ability they ever had.

Hm, I actually like it.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I find it funny how Zenos is able to use his own power when in our body, yet the WoL seemingly forgets any ability they ever had.

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Zenos has experience with body swapping and appears to have more direct control over his false echo than we do with our real echo. Both of these can lead o the WoL not knowing how to access his powers in another body while Zenos has no issues doing such.

I didn't mind the action portion. I think it was a good stab at thinking outside the box, even if it was annoying to have to figure out everything in the fly. There really is no prep for this quest (no indicators or even vague "go this way" directions) any time beforehand to help players. There was no escalation to this style of quest. BUT I did figure it out-grumbling and growling the entire time-so it's far from impossible.

My real problem is the GAPING PLOT HOLE presented by our absurdly casual kidnapping followed by an apparently effortless relocation of our supposedly powerful and ancient spirit.

Well...at least next playthrough I can respond to this ridiculous treatment of our ostensibly semi-divine character by immediately KO'ing myself, setting difficulty to "lol just click this button and you're done," followed by pretending this quest never happened (which is easy since it's never even brought up again) and moving on with the actually meaningful, and less personally offensive, epic storyline.

Really, we spend far too much time proving how pathetically impotent we are to Zenos and how little control we have over events.

For me, Zenos and his antics are the only true black mark on this otherwise stellar expansion.

I don't know what was going on when I did it, but it seemed way easier to me than expected. My daughter warned me that it was super hard, but I did it the first time despite making my way to the fuel cell before visiting the reaper and having to find the reaper before making a round trip. I didn't find the magitek units particularly hard to avoid, and I only got into one other fight after the mandatory one. Maybe I was just lucky, but it seemed to me that if you paid attention to where everyone was facing and intelligently utilized the walls and rubble to avoid LOS with the units, you could avoid 90% of the fighting. I ended the scenario with six unused medkits.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I find it funny how Zenos is able to use his own power when in our body, yet the WoL seemingly forgets any ability they ever had.

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Zenos also has prior experience with being in another body while the WoL does not. Makes sense to me that the WoL wouldn't be disoriented enough to not be able to access any abilities.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I don't like fetch quests, let me skip those.
I don't like getting currents to fly. Let me skip those.
I don't like waiting in queue. Let me skip that.

That last one is clearly a joke, but if we just implemented skips because some people don't like something, we'd literally have a skip button for everything. Specially when the reason being given people wanna skip this is literally, "I don't get to 1 shot everything in front of me and have to actually think for a second reeeeeee"

I am absolutely terrible at stealth games. I hate stealth games. Yet, I liked this solo mission, because it did exactly what it was meant to do, and at no point did I feel it was cheating me out over it. You are a basic soldier, forced into a corner and having to find a way out of this situation alive, or else all your friends die.

>.> But what do I know, I didn't wanna people to have to skip the 4.1 solo trial either (You know, the one that requests you click a single button and that's it?)

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Sure, just let "Reductio ad absurdum".. why not?

I thought it was fine. Took me one try, was a simple manage yourself and watch your surroundings kind of thing. If you had trouble, maybe get better or just pop it to very easy like they made for your type.

The quest evokes helplessness, and a dire situation. You're supposed to feel weak and lost, it was a good narrative point to add in and showed the strength of will the WoL had fighting through it to the end just to make it in time to interrupt Zenos. Maybe that speaks to your own strength of will if you couldn't bear 15-20 minutes of a mild struggle. MMOs are always going to have something you don't like as they're made for a wide variety, do I like running 5 ft at a time to talk to a new NPC every 20 seconds? Not so much, but it definitely didn't "ruin" things for me

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Originally Posted by Garten

Sure, just let "Reductio ad absurdum".. why not?

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If anything has been shown to me over the recent years is that Reducto ad absurdum is no longer valid for dismissing arguments. It was absurd to claim their be vaccine passports, yet they are now around. It was absurd to claim that people would call for removal of founding fathers representation, yet they did. The more I see slippery slope and reducto adsurdum used this day and age the less validity I see in using it to dismiss an argument.

I despised this. Loathed it. The whole thing took me right out of the story. There's several problems:

I was exhausted from log4j related stuff at work (and the disconnect prone 2.5 hour queue to get in) and not at my best mentally. So throwing me into this out of nowhere where I'm suddenly using another character that's awful was not at all what I wanted out of playing. I managed to die on the first enemy somehow, FFS.

This game is not a stealth game. The mechanics are bad for stealth games, and if you aggro something that is a mortal threat, it takes forever running away to drop aggro, which puts you lost who knows where or aggros more stuff and kills you.

... again, this game is not a stealth game. Wandering around aimlessly for a while with a countdown wasn't fun. Spamming one button isn't fun. Trying to sneak past enemies when you have no sneak skill and are just trying to eyeball distance isn't fun. Honestly, I find none of these "play as someone else with a simplified set of skills" sequences fun, but this one was just dreadful.

By the third time I was really over it and just wanted a "no, this is dumb, skip" button. But of course you can't skip it. Then I got to a QTE that I didn't expect, was drinking something, and failed it before I got my hands free.

Doing it AGAIN, I keyboard mashed as usual and somehow managed to bring up the settings menu, which you can't do in any other QTE in the game.

Somehow at the end of this entire sequence that exists entirely to show how weak you are, you are magically strong enough to do all that stuff that happens at the end? It's in no way believable and feels like they wrote themselves into a corner then just ignored what they had already established to write themselves back out of it.



I mean, great for people who enjoyed it. But this was literally the worst quest in the entire game for me, and if it wasn't part of the MSQ I'd have abandoned it in a heartbeat and never gone back. This entire zone is full of "we're going to try to make this game do stuff that this game is frankly not very good at it, so it's going to be finicky and annoying" gimmicks, and it really detracted from the story they were trying to tell.

https://imgur.com/0kAIgi3.png
https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/5c37...2449c73/1x.gif

that trooper do be thicc tho

I really enjoyed this one and look forward to more like it.

Out of curiosity, couldn't you just steamroll it on Very Easy mode after failing it once? Or is it still somewhat difficult?

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

I didn't mind the action portion. I think it was a good stab at thinking outside the box, even if it was annoying to have to figure out everything in the fly. There really is no prep for this quest (no indicators or even vague "go this way" directions) any time beforehand to help players. There was no escalation to this style of quest. BUT I did figure it out-grumbling and growling the entire time-so it's far from impossible.

My real problem is the GAPING PLOT HOLE presented by our absurdly casual kidnapping followed by an apparently effortless relocation of our supposedly powerful and ancient spirit.

Well...at least next playthrough I can respond to this ridiculous treatment of our ostensibly semi-divine character by immediately KO'ing myself, setting difficulty to "lol just click this button and you're done," followed by pretending this quest never happened (which is easy since it's never even brought up again) and moving on with the actually meaningful, and less personally offensive, epic storyline.

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I've expressed my thoughts on this quest in another thread, so short version: I liked it and it made sense.

As for this quote: I'm not seeing the issue here. The WoL has been forcibly sent places before.

Furthermore, considering Fandaniel is an Ascian (a group notorious for body swapping), and was once Amon, an ancient Allagan scientist who resurrected Xande by forcibly putting his soul back into his body...

I don't get how this is a plot hole. :P

I saw vague mention of this quest as I cautiously browsed the forums while in queues and expected something a lot worse. I enjoyed this one (more than the previous one, but that one was still okay too), especially the last bit. I didn't find it hard at all, though I did accidentally run by the fuel tank at the start when I went the wrong way, but I didn't have any problems completing it on my first try.

Every expansion people come running here saying instanced fights are too hard or annoying, but want us to believe they're hardcore raiders when playing the rest of the game. It's like how people hate the Rathalos trial because so few attacks are telegraphed. It really shows how much people rely on hand-holding in this game, and as soon as it doesn't have a huge sign pointing you where to go, it's stupid and unnecessary. Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Raim

Out of curiosity, couldn't you just steamroll it on Very Easy mode after failing it once? Or is it still somewhat difficult?

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Very easy makes you have double health and deal double damage. This basically means where 1 guy could almost kill you, it raises the bar up to 4. On top of the health kits you can find, my assumption is you could probably kill every non-magitek enemy easily on very easy (those guys might still kill you though).

So, unless there's something I'm missing or people just really really wanna fight the thing the mission screams at you not to fight, it's pretty easy if you remove a huge chunk of the point in very easy mode.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

By the third time I was really over it and just wanted a "no, this is dumb, skip" button. But of course you can't skip it. Then I got to a QTE that I didn't expect, was drinking something, and failed it before I got my hands free.

Doing it AGAIN, I keyboard mashed as usual and somehow managed to bring up the settings menu, which you can't do in any other QTE in the game.

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This quest didn't bother me much but that QTE is probably too tight for where it is. By that point you are worn out, it's a very mash-heavy QTE and if you lose you start over AFAIK. That's not great.

I loved every minute of it, the portrayal of an overwhelming sense of dread and helplessness was fantastically done. It took me two attempts to clear it out on it's original difficulty.

It was nice to have some sort of a challenge to play through that was unexpected. I can see why some might not have had the same experience, but it really was a great storytelling moment.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

I've expressed my thoughts on this quest in another thread, so short version: I liked it and it made sense.

As for this quote: I'm not seeing the issue here. The WoL has been forcibly sent places before.

Furthermore, considering Fandaniel is an Ascian (a group notorious for body swapping), and was once Amon, an ancient Allagan scientist who resurrected Xande by forcibly putting his soul back into his body...

I don't get how this is a plot hole. :P

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Indeed, Fandaniel even explains to you how he did it -

he recovered Aulus's mindjack technology that was used against the WoL during the battle for Ala Mhigo back in Stormblood (you know, that mechanic of the second boss in the dungeon where your soul was kicked out of your body and you had to wander back to your body quickly before the timer expired and it wiped you.). It was another call back to everything that has happened in the game up to this point.

As Fandangle gleefully tells you, he made some 'adjustments' to it which allowed your soul to be transferred into another body (Zenos just used his Resonant power and hopped into your vacant premises easily). At least Fandaniel at the end basically forces Zenos to vacate your body once the effect ends, sparing your soul being lost to wander without a body Ardbert style.

Either way, how it occurred was explained readily and was lore correct.

As much as I enjoyed this almost 1on1 Metal Gear style gameplay, I can see why people have issues with it because it feels like such a farcry from anything previously and that it just takes hella long.

Love stealth mechanics but holy moly was this the most garbage instance ever. Got lost and ended up going to the beginning 2 times, hugged the all and found the magitek, then learned i needed fuel and a key. Ran back and forth from the magitek 4 times trying to look for fuel because I left the fuel tank 3rd time thinking it would auto pocket like the medical aide. Almost tossed my controller.

I kinda liked it but I disliked the lack of direction. My first attempt I wasted almost the entire time looking for the magitek you need the fuel and key for, I was just running around trying to find an opening to get to the camp lol.

I enjoyed the stealthy mission as Thancred much more than this one, but both were a nice change of pace in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Raim

Out of curiosity, couldn't you just steamroll it on Very Easy mode after failing it once? Or is it still somewhat difficult?

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I did it on very easy but for me the problem was, that you still got no clue on what to do. The fightings are a bit easier but most of my time was spent finding a solution to getting out there (because the quest said to get out)...it took some time to find the new quest object and even more time to gather the stuff up.

Honestly if they add quest markers to the very easy mode that would really help it.

In the end for me the worst part was the story around it...how the WoL magically makes it to the camp just in the right time to block the first attack Zenos does...and that after we were not able to walk anymore..

Well, if you ever wondered why classes get easier and easier with each coming expansion and new dungeons are nothing but an amalgamation of cool effects on top a straight corridor with zero sustenance behind it, there you go.

People are literally angry and threatening to ragequit because they have to explore the map a little and press different buttons. For once. In a new released expansion. Yikes.

I liked the quest overall but did hate it when i died thrice and had to start over..

I'm on the opposite side of the fence, myself. I loved that quest for many reasons. I was entirely focused on story and not gameplay mechanics at that point, so I enjoyed feeling what the people of Garlemald felt, why they were so afraid to go out on their own, or engage the haywire magiteks - they're not the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, nor are they the Warrior of Light, so they're forced to hide and avoid danger as much as they can.

I want more perspective altering content like this, it was a welcome route, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I find it funny how Zenos is able to use his own power when in our body, yet the WoL seemingly forgets any ability they ever had.

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I mean, at that moment Zenos is wearing a body that has taken down gods. Repeatedly. In contrast, we were wearing a body of a random Garlean grunt who might have seen some overseas skirmishes, but could just as easily never have done anything beyond guard duty in the palace in Garlemald.

If you take two highly skilled Formula 1 drivers and put them both in Formula 1 cars, they're probably somewhat matched. If you take Driver A and give them Driver B's F1 car, then put Driver B in a 1986 Volvo sedan, chances are driver A is going to be able to outrace driver B even in a car that isn't their usual one.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Doing it AGAIN, I keyboard mashed as usual and somehow managed to bring up the settings menu, which you can't do in any other QTE in the game.

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This was my one actual complaint about this section. Every other Active Time Maneuver locks out normal keyboard input during those times, so hitting "K" counts as "Press a button" as opposed to "Open character settings", and "C" counts as "Press a button" rather than "Open character window" and so on. This one locked out combat actions, but not keyboard input entirely. It startled me when I keyboard-mashed like usual and suddenly had like 4 windows open.

I escaped out hastily and finished the ATM without issue by sticking to just the movement keys, but it definitely could've made me fail that part.

I feel like that one's a bug; the control system probably has a few modes ("Standard combat", "Lock out combat actions", and "Lock out all input") and someone set the wrong flag there, compared to every other Active Time Maneuver. Hopefully that one gets a hotfix in 6.01 along with their adjustments to the difficulties.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Somehow at the end of this entire sequence that exists entirely to show how weak you are, you are magically strong enough to do all that stuff that happens at the end? It's in no way believable and feels like they wrote themselves into a corner then just ignored what they had already established to write themselves back out of it.

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I am actually going to disagree here; that bit at the end was some of what made this sequence work for me. I took it as that all through the sequence up to that point, you're functionally limited to what this random Garlean grunt could reasonably have done. But at the end, pushed to your limit and desperate to get to your friends, you break through that and begin to draw on a bit of your normal power.

Which was, after all, the point of Fandaniel and Zenos' entire little mocking experiment: how formidable would you actually be, stripped of your strength? How much of your power could you feasibly draw on in an unfamiliar, weak body, if motivated by desperation? The answer seemed to be "more than I'd have expected at the beginning of this experience."

I still didn't find the sequence compelling enough that I have any desire to play it again, but it didn't fail narratively for me.

(Though it did feel odd they didn't do a little more with the thread from that sequence. I half-expected that at some point near the climax of the game, we'd be left in an unfamiliar body -- an aetheric construct to survive space or whatever -- and it would be the experience there that allowed us to still utilize any of our normal power in that form.)

I had a lot of fun with this duty. Almost all of the content in this game is a face roll, so it's nice to have to do something that isn't free.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

Seriously considering quitting the game over this one.

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I wish there was a way to skip it or have all the requirements and routes indicated on the map, fuck this MSQ Duty, got it done and never looked back. It also didn't matter in the story later anyway, like a disposable excuse to make you look more vulnerable and for certain characters to parrot the lines for effect or something.

I didnt think this one was that bad. The other scenario in this area that forced you to find a "camp" with a hilariously squishy character, with next to no direction, was way worse. imo.

What a lot, and by a lot it seems to be 90%, of the people saying we don't like the difficulty of this quest aren't quite getting is, and please read this three times if you are on the diffculty kick, is that we are not mad about the difficuly of the quest. The quest is not hard. Repeat, it is not hard. It is the story point that bothers a lot of people. Basically square is telling us that Zenos is going to rape and murder you and you WILL like it damn it! THAT is what the problem is. They can make a piss poor stealth mechanic all they want. They violate everything about who you are, who your character is, then just dem it away. It is not the difficulty of the duty, it is the story around it.

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Originally Posted by Corvanther

What a lot, and by a lot it seems to be 90%, of the people saying we don't like the difficulty of this quest aren't quite getting is, and please read this three times if you are on the diffculty kick, is that we are not mad about the difficuly of the quest. The quest is not hard. Repeat, it is not hard. It is the story point that bothers a lot of people. Basically square is telling us that Zenos is going to rape and murder you and you WILL like it damn it! THAT is what the problem is. They can make a piss poor stealth mechanic all they want. They violate everything about who you are, who your character is, then just dem it away. It is not the difficulty of the duty, it is the story around it.

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What you aren't realizing, is that the bolded is the point ins one of the points of the duty. Your are supposed to feel violated. The entire point is to piss you off, show you how worthless you are without your body. Zenos wants to anger you while at the same time unlock more strength in you in order to fight you fully and completely. As for deming it away, Zenos would not want to fight you outside of your body so there is no reason for him to push to do this outside of pissing you off. Fandaniel also does not want you to really die either (at least until you kill a certain primal for him)

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Originally Posted by Corvanther

What a lot, and by a lot it seems to be 90%, of the people saying we don't like the difficulty of this quest aren't quite getting is, and please read this three times if you are on the diffculty kick, is that we are not mad about the difficuly of the quest. The quest is not hard. Repeat, it is not hard. It is the story point that bothers a lot of people. Basically square is telling us that Zenos is going to rape and murder you and you WILL like it damn it! THAT is what the problem is. They can make a piss poor stealth mechanic all they want. They violate everything about who you are, who your character is, then just dem it away. It is not the difficulty of the duty, it is the story around it.

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Where on earth in that quest does the game ever imply that we should like Zenos violating us? You have a really weird reading of this that doesn't match at all what I played through.

The other thing this MSQ Duty taught me was to just Google Search because it saves a lot of time and kind of makes up for lack of map and quest indicators. I don't remember having to do this much at all with other MSQ Duties or Quests but this one was an Alt Tab Google Search Duty.

i liked the instance, it was kinda like a palace of the dead lite with the no-hp regen modifier mashed with the potion from rathalos.

I liked this duty much more than the "follow xzy person, in sneaky mode, for no reason at all cause after like 20m you will call them out anyway".

This one I only failed once at the very beginning, but I quite liked that there was something new to the game. But it felt more like a "single player" game mode. I think many ff players are not used to that kind of game and thus its harder to complete them. Half my childhood I played games like this so for me it was a bit also sentimental :D

However, if you feel angry about it I would just look up a guide, I am sure there is already one on the net.

I mean, this mission was supposed to frustrate you and make you feel angry and helpless.

The only thing I wish they'd change is not require you to interact with the magitek before being able to pick up the fuel or battery. I found the fuel earlier, but had to ignore it until the duty deemed it the appropriate time for me to grab it.

I think people start to panic when they see the countdown timer. I did it on normal but even on normal going very slow and taking your time you will get it done in time. The timer is very generous. I can only imagine how easy it is on very easy.