All Greed on Alliance loot

I dont have much to add other than I hate the idea of greed only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrSmiley

Before weekly lockout it won't pose much of an issue, afterwards though? ... Lol, good luck. People will hit the greed button not even because they are greedy, but because its an automatic reaction. Gearing new classes/new players will have a hell of a time accomplishing anything.

---

I'm not the kind of person who runs these things for gear once they become irrelevant, which it will as soon as 4.4 and the new raid tier comes out. If you want stuff for glamour purposes then you should only be able to greed, which is all people will want when it's outdated content.


You don't mindlessly grind the alliance raid for alt gear on an even numbered patch, you use the previous tier of tomestone to buy the previous tier of gear. For example, when 4.4 drops and you want a fresh 70 to be kitted out? You buy the mendacity gear, as mendacity will be uncapped as the standard tomestone. Not only that but you also have access to all the upgrade items of the tier, so that by default makes it better than the alliance gear.

What about have the NPC vendor for all alliance raid gear, no more chests inside, and players get tokens to buy it later?

222 'likes' and still no official response to either this thread or the concerns regarding the freemium currency? Hm...

We're not the Japanese community so we don't count it seems.

Adding my support to the OP.
It's frustrating enough waiting for a specific piece to drop in 24 mans without having to worry about rolling against the entire group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

snip

---

If your targeting the glamour for specific, the already lengthy farming process for them will be doubled if not more compared to before. We don't ever run normal dungeons for gear, only tomes or glamour, should those be greed only too? With how stingy they are on drop rates and gear in this game, especially with time spent, they don't need to be making it harder. Even before, going for targeted glamour set could take days a best unless you were lucky, and rolling for token in normal raids can take an hour or two or more depending on if you actually win. These runs will not only take longer than all those, but you wont be rolling against any less people. This is not something they need to make harder, I don't see whats unfair about someone going in with their desired class for its glamour.

I already get outrolled in dungeons on greed rolls and examine them and discover they don't even have the class unlocked, running these after the lockout is gone simply wont be worth it for anything, its a terrible decision and there was no reason to change it at all, which is the baffling part. I can't even understand why they decided to do this in the first place, nothing was wrong before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

222 'likes' and still no official response to either this thread or the concerns regarding the freemium currency? Hm...

---

Quote:

---

[...] we will be reading over community feedback when deciding if we will continue this approach or not in the future.

---

It's pretty clear that they want to to test it live and only then gather actual feedback, instead of relying on people making assumption such as "omagad, 7 other randos will now steal mah loot everytiem!".

So, wait for the patch, play it, and then come back to complain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

It's pretty clear that they want to to test it live and only then gather actual feedback, instead of relying on people making assumption such as "omagad, 7 other randos will now steal mah loot everytiem!".

So, wait for the patch, play it, and then come back to complain.

---

That doesn't change the fact it's a stupid decision. Why change something which had no problems before? Why wait until it's live to see if it works when you could just not implement it and everything will be fine and no one will complain?

Also it's not making assumptions. You don't realise how many people play this game for glamour. People will roll purely for glamour. The advantage before was "if you want that glamour run as that class, if you don't your chances drop of getting it". For example the new 24 man sets are based on 12/tactics, let's look at the Vann outfit. I can bet a good chunk will roll on that just for glamour even though they don't need it. Now if there was someone in the group that needs it (I have seen people go into 24 man for gear) and they were the class the vaan outfit is for...well sorry that healer over there just took it from you even though they may not have it leveled which people have done numerous times.

Are you telling me you don't see a problem with this? I rarely encounter the same people in 24 man so you will never know how many you are rolling against and what they want. I have spoken to a few people i know in-game who don't use the forums and they all say the all greed is a stupid change and it's not needed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

222 'likes' and still no official response to either this thread or the concerns regarding the freemium currency? Hm...

---

Communication has tanked in the more recent years. They don't need to communicate as much anymore because they got what they needed which was a successful game and communication was essential in order to do that. You would think that a community team would engage with the community but they haven't even posted a single thing in like 4 weeks in any topics. Personally, I think that's kinda lacking in my opinion especially when there are topics which make the community not feel to great about a change they are planning to make. You can say you are listening but if people don't see it then it's pretty much means nothing.

Also the patch notes should be coming out tomorrow so by now I'm pretty sure they could come in and say if they are not implementing it or they will continue with it, but I guess they are too scared from community reaction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remus

That doesn't change the fact it's a stupid decision. Why change something which had no problems before?

---

It actually was far from perfect. This change definitly solves some issues.
The real question is whether or not these issues had to be fixed with a new system.

For SE, the answer was yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

This change definitly solves some issues.

---

The only issues this seems to have solved was cases in which people wanted to gear classes they weren't running the content on and losing their items to Need rolls. Which to me looks like it's working as intended? What other issues were there other than "well casters already had it bad so now EVERYONE SUFFERS!"?

Rolling against a maximum of 4 other people > rolling against a maximum of 7 other people. And with how Eureka doesn't seem like it'll be giving artifact gear upgrades, people will likely use this as their chance to gear up their alt classes while running on their main which they gear through Savage or tomes. So the people who don't want the tome gear and don't run savage actually lost their main gearing option because RNG is already mean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

And with how Eureka doesn't seem like it'll be giving artifact gear upgrades, people will likely use this as their chance to gear up their alt classes while running on their main which they gear through Savage or tomes. So the people who don't want the tome gear and don't run savage actually lost their main gearing option because RNG is already mean.

---

This is the whole point of the change, how is it so difficult to grasp? As far as "not wanting tome gear on main", let me ask who in their right mind doesn't want what is essentially non savage best in slot 370 for their main?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

It actually was far from perfect. This change definitly solves some issues.

---

What issue did it fix?

You're making me have potentially worse odds rolling for the set I want. That makes me want to try this set even less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jijifli

What issue did it fix?

You're making me have potentially worse odds rolling for the set I want. That makes me want to try this set even less.

---

Me needing on that glorious tank chest that you want for glamour purposes, with zero competition, which I don't even need or want and just intend to desynth/GC it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Me needing on that glorious tank chest that you want for glamour purposes, with zero competition, which I don't even need or want and just intend to desynth/GC it.

---

If they want to glamour it, perhaps they should enter the raid as the job that can need in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

The only issues this seems to have solved was cases in which people wanted to gear classes they weren't running the content on and losing their items to Need rolls. Which to me looks like it's working as intended? What other issues were there other than "well casters already had it bad so now EVERYONE SUFFERS!"?

---

And you think that's normal for casters to have it bad while other jobs/roles have the easy life for no apparent reason?
You also think that queue times being impacted by loot is a fine and acceptable thing?
Or that it's okay if your healer is terrible at its job in 24-man but are force to play as one if they want some gear, putting everyone at a disadvantage?

It doesn't matter if some of these seem trivial to you. They are still issues that the new system solves, like it or not. That's also an answer for you, Jijifli.
Yes, it lower the overall odds of getting something. I never said otherwise. I even suggested earlier in this thread solutions to keep roughly the same odds as before. But it doesn't change the fact that some issues of the current system are going to be solved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

And with how Eureka doesn't seem like it'll be giving artifact gear upgrades, people will likely use this as their chance to gear up their alt classes while running on their main which they gear through Savage or tomes. So the people who don't want the tome gear and don't run savage actually lost their main gearing option because RNG is already mean

---

If you run savage and do your weekly tomestones, it's very unlikely that you haven't finished gearing your main job weeks ago. I cannot see why someone would gimp themselves by waiting three and a half month only to then take i360 non-upgradable gear exclusively. That doesn't make sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

And you think that's normal for casters to have it bad while other jobs/roles have the easy life for no apparent reason?

---

I have ran several raids where I was the only caster, while the other DPS had overlapping Need rights. So "casters have it worse under the current system" is a load of bull. You can get five DRG in the same party.
And that's before the very simple fact that the new system will make it even worse for them so I don't know why you think you have the moral high-ground here.

Quote:

---

Or that it's okay if your healer is terrible at its job in 24-man but are force to play as one if they want some gear, putting everyone at a disadvantage?

---

And if that player only plays healers because that's what they enjoy? And is their only level 70? It's like it's ok for bad players to exist in this world.

Quote:

---

They are still issues that the new system solves, like it or not.

---

No, because now all the good healers will run DPS because they can get the healer gear they want while playing a much low-stress job in a new raid. Why should they heal this train-wreck if they can roll on the healer top after being dead as a lolgoon 70% of the raid?

Quote:

---

But it doesn't change the fact that some issues of the current system are going to be solved.

---

And introduced more issues so yey?

Quote:

---

If you run savage and do your weekly tomestones, it's very unlikely that you haven't finished gearing your main job weeks ago.

---

I'm allergic to determination

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Me needing on that glorious tank chest that you want for glamour purposes, with zero competition, which I don't even need or want and just intend to desynth/GC it.

---

I have this revolutionary idea for you here. It's kind of complicated, so I'll put it slowly.

You. Can. Go. On. That. Job.

If they chose to come as a tank instead, then they would have had no issues here. How about another example?

You needing on that glarious tank chest while you're on scholar, for your glam, while I need it for an upgrade, and you win.

Congrats I'm not tanking the content ever again. There's no reason to anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I have ran several raids where I was the only caster, while the other DPS had overlapping Need rights. So "casters have it worse under the current system" is a load of bull. You can get five DRG in the same party.
And that's before the very simple fact that the new system will make it even worse for them so I don't know why you think you have the moral high-ground here.

---

Saying that the argument "is a load of bull" when you are the one who brought it up to support your claims with an example. Good job.
Whatever, you didn't address the point at all besides speaking about a specific scenario you personaly experienced, which is completly irrelevant. If you think that a tank having no competition whatsoever and a healer always having a rival for loot is an inequality which isn't worth balancing, well, that's your own opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

And if that player only plays healers because that's what they enjoy? And is their only level 70? It's like it's ok for bad players to exist in this world.

---

Then that player should buy tomestone gear as they are drowning in them for not using them for any other job. You act like 24-raids are the only option to get gear. Breaking news, it's not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

No, because now all the good healers will run DPS because they can get the healer gear they want while playing a much low-stress job in a new raid. Why should they heal this train-wreck if they can roll on the healer top after being dead as a lolgoon 70% of the raid?

---

Who are you to speak about what people will want to play? You assume that "all good healers" don't like healing in 24-raids and will suddenly switch to DPS. That's ridiculous. Out of all the assumptions people make in this thread, this one is one of the worst I've seen. I'm done with you after that post.

No wonder why SE didn't say anything about that topic and want to test it live first. The doomsayers really are loud.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I'm allergic to determination

---

Then don't play a MMORPG where grinding takes up the vast majority of the available activities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

Whatever, you didn't address the point at all besides speaking about a specific scenario you personaly experienced, which is completly irrelevant. If you think that a tank having no competition whatsoever and a healer always having a rival for loot is an inequality which isn't worth balancing, well, that's your own opinion.

---

I never said that. I just said that balancing it by screwing everyone over is not the way to go. Small difference.

Quote:

---

Who are you to speak about what people will want to play?

---

I'm not. I'm simply revisiting things already stated in this thread over time by people who play healers who'd rather not heal this raid now.

Well considering you can get better gear without ever even setting foot in any type of raiding situation I say meh. I get this stuff would be more for alt jobs and glamours, and I agree it’s not a good change, but I also don’t think it’s the end of that world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Me needing on that glorious tank chest that you want for glamour purposes, with zero competition, which I don't even need or want and just intend to desynth/GC it.

---

You aren't Needing it if I queue as a tank. ;)

Likewise, if you Need on things for Desynth/GC, I had less competition than as opposed to now. Not to mention, it's kind of silly rolling on 24 gear for Seals when it takes 6-7 months before they allow you to turn stuff in.

What is the point of this change? To ease up gearing of alt jobs? Gearing for what? If you're not playing your alt job to begin with what exactly is the gear for. I'm not tanking content to gear players alt jobs when i have my main job to gear up. What bloody nonsense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vurtney

What is the point of this change? To ease up gearing of alt jobs? Gearing for what? If you're not playing your alt job to begin with what exactly is the gear for. I'm not tanking content to gear players alt jobs when i have my main job to gear up. What bloody nonsense.

---

They said its because they are trying to prevent you from having to run the alliance raids multiple times each week to get what you want because supposedly everyone is just doing it for alt jobs and they can't role need on alt job stuff. If they really wanted to fix the problem of having to run the Alliance raid multiple times, they would do a token system or something. But I think because that takes some effort, they trying fix it with low effort method.

The funny thing is I haven't seen that many complaints about how the Alliance raid loot works right now, but after this change, there might be a lot of complaints, which might finally force SE to do a token system. so doing nothing at all in the first place would have been better for them.

so to make it so you don't have to run it so much for the gear you want there making a change to the loot loot rules that if anything well make me have to run even more since i have to worry about losing to other jobs now? and before you counter wth people won't roll on everything due to lock out even that's true at first it won't last because eventually people will just go screw it and all role on everything so they have something and don't have to go back for the week

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyro2hell3

so to make it so you don't have to run it so much for the gear you want there making a change to the loot loot rules that if anything well make me have to run even more since i have to worry about losing to other jobs now? and before you counter wth people won't roll on everything due to lock out even that's true at first it won't last because eventually people will just go screw it and all role on everything so they have something and don't have to go back for the week

---

Exactly this. The last boss is probably going to be the one where everyone who hasn't won anything rolls just to try and get any kind of drop for the week. I've got several jobs at 70 that I can just throw random gear at, so it's not really such a far fetched thing to not happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vurtney

What is the point of this change? To ease up gearing of alt jobs? Gearing for what? If you're not playing your alt job to begin with what exactly is the gear for. I'm not tanking content to gear players alt jobs when i have my main job to gear up. What bloody nonsense.

---

Supposedly, some amongst the JP community complained they were forced to play less geared jobs as opposed to their main, which made rolling on loot difficult. It appears more divisive overseas as to whether you should queue on your main to better assure a smooth run or play whatever job has need privilege. NA and EU, on the other hand, near unanimously prefer the latter. So I really have no idea what prompted this change. Perhaps the assumed that vocal minority was larger than it seems?

If SE is making changes because of the voices of minority groups in japan, it only shows they dont care about other opinions outside of japan.

All it will do is make people run 24 man less. I for one, do not need gear from the 24 mans as the other options not only are better but usually come out earlier in the patch cycle. 1 clear and quit for the week.

I read above ppl said you NEED my upgrade etc, and oh well you are right and then this is how SE implement this logic.

There were more posts complained "ppl NEED my loots", they didn't NEED it and they should not NEED it, that was my loot because my gear is worse than yours.

Oh good now SE removing the NEED button for those ppl to avoid ppl NEED their "upgrade".

I really hope Yoshida makes his own game but not customizes the game for "WE".

Well seeing the gear that drop and taking into account the greed only loot rules, I would have to say I don't NEED this gear for ilvl or glamor so will more than likely only run this raid one a week per charicter. I just feel the gear is not worth running this raid 200+ times to get a drop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

222 'likes' and still no official response to either this thread or the concerns regarding the freemium currency? Hm...

---

They say that they want feedback from us but it seems that even with feedback they still stay on their track and just put in it..and afterwards wonder why its going bad..why should we even give them feedback beforehand if they seemingly dont even want to change something before its goind live..I am quite sure that if they ever showed us LoV or Diadem 2.0 before the release (and really showed us how it would function) and we would have pointed out how bad it is..they would still have gone through with that..

Its really a bit frustrating..especially since we dont even get messages from them...

Seems the greed still went through. So much for feedback right? Why even bother with this game.

I'm just grateful there's only maybe the one set of gear I want for glamour, and even then it's very close to the Zidane getup and other existing alternatives. With how much I hunt, I might not even run this thing past the first time to progress the story, and maybe help friends out.

its just gonna be a greed fest i will greed on every single item even if I don't have that class unlocked, to get something out of it and sell em to the vendor. people that want to gear there alts really need to play their alts.

Kinda weird change, I understand the pros of it but... this kinda changes it into a worse normal raid loot system, (sigma, etc) where it sometimes takes you 50 years to get a token because everyone can roll on everything even when the weekly restriction is on. These same raids become even worse when the restriction is removed as you sometimes get 1 person winning 3 of them at once.

24 man loot pools also have so many items vs the normal raids so the piece you want might not even drop.

And just like normal raids, you can control the loot by going in with a premade so there's that I guess.

i don't what they were trying to do but I'm pretty all this will really do is make the new 24 dead and impossible to get a full 24 people for on any day other then Tuesday

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyro2hell3

i don't what they were trying to do but I'm pretty all this will really do is make the new 24 dead and impossible to get a full 24 people for on any day other then Tuesday

---

I think the idea was to stretch the content out for longer since you need more runs to get and peiece of armor you want but.... I think this will have the reverse affect

This is likely going to kill all 24 man raids period. Let's be honest a lot of the drive for max level characters to even revisit the old raids are for glams. I'm still farming for the Yafaemi healer top on my alt, and that is the only reason I enter anything that isn't Rabanastre. After this change getting glam drops from old raids will be beyond rage inducing. Anything that can be turned into seals will be an 8 way free for all regardless of the drop going forward. As for Ridorana, well the last boss will probably be a free for all with everyone hitting greed to just get some kind of drop for the week and be done with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vrankyl

This is likely going to kill all 24 man raids period.

---

Exaggeration. This would only be true if all players doing old 24 man raids were doing them for glam.

People leveling side jobs will still do Alliance roulette because it's good exp, regardless of this change. There will always be people leveling jobs, as long as we keep getting new players/alts. Don't underestimate how many people don't have max level for all the jobs they care about.

For the current-patch raids, people who are behind on upgrade items (and yes, they exist. Whether it's people who don't raid or people who aren't as good/consistent at it) will still want to do it just for the coin.

Would it affect how many people queue? Sure. But KILL the alliance raids? Nah.