An NPC you truly hate with passion

Emet-Selch's motives were easily understood and sympathetic, but his method wasn't reasonably acceptable.

Venat's motives were largely ideological and thus not nearly concise, and her methods similarly resulted in immense suffering for the people of Etheriys, but were painted as a necessary evil. The disagreements arise largely from the thought that she could've potentially avoided the original Final Days, the Sundering, basically every bad thing that's happened throughout the history of Etheriys through better use of the foreknowledge she was given (Nevermind that the causal loop mandated that things had to have played out in a certain way), which is why I feel like she would've been more widely accepted had they not even left that window open by depriving her of said knowledge, either by avoiding the time travel entirely, or having her memories get wiped as well.

I don't dislike either of them, but I have a very hard time forming a solid opinion about the latter due to how badly the timey-wimey nonsense muddles everything.

Lahabrea Thancred. Don’t hate the character as such but more the story telling with him. How so many people didn’t catch that he was possessed by an Ascian and think Thancred actually was the Ascian all along. I didn’t find that at all but I’ve seen more than a. Few claim that when it came to Thancred. As a resultof this story it leaves a lot of ppl with a dislike for Thancred for a large part of the game imo

Zenos, because of everything. I dislike every single thing about the character.

#1 I don't have anything or anybody but something that I lol and find in jest about a npc is Nero's 3D printed helmet kupo <3 lol

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Emet-Selch's motives were easily understood and sympathetic, but his method wasn't reasonably acceptable.

Venat's motives were largely ideological and thus not nearly concise, and her methods similarly resulted in immense suffering for the people of Etheriys, but were painted as a necessary evil. The disagreements arise largely from the thought that she could've potentially avoided the original Final Days, the Sundering, basically every bad thing that's happened throughout the history of Etheriys through better use of the foreknowledge she was given (Nevermind that the causal loop mandated that things had to have played out in a certain way), which is why I feel like she would've been more widely accepted had they not even left that window open by depriving her of said knowledge, either by avoiding the time travel entirely, or having her memories get wiped as well.

I don't dislike either of them, but I have a very hard time forming a solid opinion about the latter due to how badly the timey-wimey nonsense muddles everything.

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Atleast Venat admits her plan had very bad things happen with it, where as Emet straight up never apologizes for what amounts to ethnic cleansing.

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Originally Posted by Rhus

Lahabrea Thancred. Don’t hate the character as such but more the story telling with him. How so many people didn’t catch that he was possessed by an Ascian and think Thancred actually was the Ascian all along. I didn’t find that at all but I’ve seen more than a. Few claim that when it came to Thancred. As a resultof this story it leaves a lot of ppl with a dislike for Thancred for a large part of the game imo

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Do people actually think that? Thought it was hilarious to run around in Praetorium memeing with "wow, can't believe Thancred betrayed us!" I'm sorry... for contributing.

Anyway, I'm pretty tired also of all the scions save Estinien, who is fairly new to it. Especially G'raha Tia, who I never liked since Crystal Tower, and has been an unbearable Adoring Fan from Oblivion: Moe Uguu Edition. I didn't like Alisaie much for the clingy hero worship either, but she has been rising in my esteem ever since she called out his 'heroic sacrifice' suicide-baiting. I've had enough of that in real life, thanks. She should've done a full-on slap rather than just a flick, though, but that probably would've sundered the guy.

Also dislike Venat/Hydaelyn, or at least what she became in Endwalker. It seemed they were trying to do too much with the character and it became a mess as a result. And no, I don't think you need to list off all of a character's crimes and how you don't condone them every time you want to say something positive about them. Love her if you want. And yes, I found all of the 'anthill' metaphors during ShB to be cring and I'm glad they stopped, the guy was coping and wound up really seeing mortals as children.

Sure, he killed thousands of dragons including little babies and bathed in the blood of an elder and I think that's a not-cool thing I wouldn't do irl, but that Estinien sure is a cool and neat guy who actually got character development.

Lyse and Tataru

Lyse and Xenos.

Lyse because she's so much the archetypical blonde dingbat. Xenos because everything about him is objectionable to me. Not least of which is his hair! Take a shower and get a hair cut, Stringy Hair Boy.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Atleast Venat admits her plan had very bad things happen with it, where as Emet straight up never apologizes for what amounts to ethnic cleansing.

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Does Venat ever apologize? All i remember is her aconowledging the wrongs she did, where we also have Emet essentially acknowledging the death and suffering he’s caused, he just sees it as a necessary evil to bring his people back. Also…she committed “ethnic cleansing” as well lol. Whilst also keeping it all a secret from everyone

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Does Venat ever apologize? All i remember is her aconowledging the wrongs she did, where we also have Emet essentially acknowledging the death and suffering he’s caused, he just sees it as a necessary evil to bring his people back. Also…she committed “ethnic cleansing” as well lol. Whilst also keeping it all a secret from everyone

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Is it murder if you split 1 into 14? Isn't it additive at that point?

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Is it murder if you split 1 into 14? Isn't it additive at that point?

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Uh…yes it is murder. Especially if you take into account illness and arguably dying of aging didnt really exist. Her sundering effectively created those vulnerabilities which means all of the deaths due to those are on her hands. She split their souls apart to the point they became effectively different beings/people entirely.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Uh…yes it is murder. Especially if you take into account illness and arguably dying of aging didnt really exist. Her sundering effectively created those vulnerabilities which means all of the deaths due to those are on her hands. She split their souls apart to the point they became effectively different beings/people entirely.

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So it resulted in creation rather than destruction though? Fail to see the issue here.

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Originally Posted by Mosselyn

Lyse and Xenos.

Lyse because she's so much the archetypical blonde dingbat. Xenos because everything about him is objectionable to me. Not least of which is his hair! Take a shower and get a hair cut, Stringy Hair Boy.

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At the very least, Zenos decided to finally take a shower for the first time in years for his Dissidia appearance.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

So it resulted in creation rather than destruction though? Fail to see the issue here.

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? It split the world apart. Did you not play through Endwalker? It caused mass death in the long run, it even continues to to this day. I can argue in that case then the rejoinings would result in creation of one better world than 14 broken ones.It’s literally explicitly stated to not be a good thing by the writers so i’m not sure what there’s even there to argue about.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

So it resulted in creation rather than destruction though? Fail to see the issue here.

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Indeed. All you need to do is ignore all the consequences it has, and there's no issue. I mean, why even stop at division by 14? Keep going.

Oh and another little tidbit: she let Emet-Selch escape knowing what he'd potentially do without any knowledge of what happened while actively working towards some grand plan that the WoL either unwittingly played into or (potentially an "and") involved actively steering the timeline in that direction. Do you grasp the implication of that?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Indeed. All you need to do is ignore all the consequences it has, and there's no issue. I mean, why even stop at division by 14? Keep going.

Oh and another little tidbit: she let Emet-Selch escape knowing what he'd potentially do without any knowledge of what happened while actively working towards some grand plan that the WoL either unwittingly played into, or involved actively steering the timeline in that direction. Do you grasp the implication of that?

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Allow me to use Emet logic. I don't consider the Ancients alive, therefore I feel nothing towards their destruction.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Allow me to use Emet logic. I don't consider thr Ancients alive, therefore I feel nothing towards their destruction.

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None of the characters are truly alive - your feelings on the matter are of little interest to me. I am simply seeing if you can follow a logical train of thought. I've got my answer.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

None of the characters are truly alive - your feelings on the matter are of little interest to me. I am simply seeing if you can follow a logical train of thought. I've got my answer.

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What we have here is a failure to communicate. You and your camp have your alls take on the story. One that gets brought up in any thread tangentially related to the story, and often derails the discussion. I have my own takes on the story that, by and large, I am willing to keep to myself and not engage. However, due to how prevalent these arguments have become in discussing the story I have felt the need to wade in the disagreement. In doing so, time and time, again I been confronted on my position with "facts and logic". Facts and logic I do not view as valid, or particularly convincing. So our disagreements continues. In short nobody is convincing nobody, and we are all in it for argument and sniping at arguments.

Fanboys frothing in this thread right now.

There's no "camp" though..? What a funny way to think, we're all here in hope to enjoy the game and discuss it not to grow camps and be hostile with each other.

Anyway, going back to the actual thread, there's actually no npc I can't stand tbh but there are some annoying ones. If the elementals from Twelveswood can be considered npcs then it's definitely them on top of my list, if not then it would be Valens.

I just have to add a picture and a name, right?

https://i.imgur.com/LPz7B9r.jpg

Venat/Hydaelyn is my pick. There are a few others but this is definitely at the top of my list.

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Originally Posted by Kyohei

There's no "camp" though..? What a funny way to think, we're all here in hope to enjoy the game and discuss it not to grow camps and be hostile with each other.

Anyway, going back to the actual thread, there's actually no npc I can't stand tbh but there are some annoying ones. If the elementals from Twelveswood can be considered npcs then it's definitely them on top of my list, if not then it would be Valens.

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The elementals slipped my mind for a while, but I do actively dislike them after doing basically every quest that involves them.

They're wholly responsible for the EW tank role quest being necessary due to how fickle and unforgiving they are and sometimes they seem to just give people a rough time for no reason in particular, like that Miqo'te from the postmoogle quests.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The elementals slipped my mind for a while, but I do actively dislike them after doing basically every quest that involves them.

They're wholly responsible for the EW tank role quest being necessary due to how fickle and unforgiving they are and sometimes they seem to just give people a rough time for no reason in particular, like that Miqo'te from the postmoogle quests.

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The elementals get a pass though given the Elpis quests finally revealed what they really are: just broken Ancient familiars meant to communicate through the aether (a quest there involved dealing with one that was stuck in in what was basically a feedback loop that made it freeze and was unable to escape from - fixing the situation which caused that state allowed it to recover and continue with it's task), so it's possible that they were deployed into some kind of environmental management task that the Sundering broke their AI and thus they took "protect/regulate the environment" to the extreme.

Explains also how they're able to change people into padjal and turn the forest against them, they're using creation magic themselves (we know familiars can use creation magic - the loropitts use it). So, once again, blame the Ancients for things that are wrong with the world I guess.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

The elementals get a pass though given the Elpis quests finally revealed what they really are: just broken Ancient familiars meant to communicate through the aether (a quest there involved dealing with one that was stuck in in what was basically a feedback loop that made it freeze and was unable to escape from - fixing the situation which caused that state allowed it to recover and continue with it's task), so it's possible that they were deployed into some kind of environmental management task that the Sundering broke their AI and thus they took "protect/regulate the environment" to the extreme.

Explains also how they're able to change people into padjal and turn the forest against them, they're using creation magic themselves (we know familiars can use creation magic - the loropitts use it). So, once again, blame the Ancients for things that are wrong with the world I guess.

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Or just blame the lady that sundered them and made them go haywire in the first place lul

I want to throw Hien into the sun. After all, the "being cool with human trafficking" thing made me go from apathetic to his existence to revulsion. Not to mention Hien, to me, is what everyone hates about Lyse. Frankly I'm kind of shocked he isn't mentioned here more.

I don't think someone allowing something to happen necessarily means they're okay with it; especially in the case of a royal and leader who can't exactly be going around their lands routinely to get a full picture of what's going on. Not to mention the Garleans were already occupying the country at the time, which only would've caused further disconnect due to the rulers simply being figureheads at that point and denied freedom of action.

The Endwalker role quests in general kind of address the matter with the leaders initially being unaware of the despair their people have been going through, taking the time to engage with them and get a fuller picture of what ails them, then taking measures to help ease the hearts of the populace.

Hien in particular hadn't even considered the lingering backlash he would've gotten from trying to shelter Yotsuyu nor the potential disdain towards the formerly conscripted Domans, so while he certainly means well, so he's clearly still a bit lacking in foresight and awareness as a ruler but undeniably wants the best for his people, even admitting he needs to do his best to avoid the kinds of circumstances that led to Yotsuyu becoming as twisted as she did going into the future.

Zenos. And not because he was the first enemy in the game to kick our butts (the 'Hopeless Boss Fight' trope springs to mind) but because pretty much everything about him is a trope - and not a particuarly good one at that.

Tutaru......die in a fire !!!

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Zenos. And not because he was the first enemy in the game to kick our butts (the 'Hopeless Boss Fight' trope springs to mind) but because pretty much everything about him is a trope - and not a particuarly good one at that.

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Indeed - more of the former, less of the latter, would've been good.

Zenos, for committing the ultimate sin of a character in a story: He's boring.

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Originally Posted by Tabmow

Tutaru......die in a fire !!!

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YES


ten chars

inb4 the next ffxiv expansion where tataru becomes the reaper in the scions

nah
prob would still hate her lmao

Wandering Dramaturge, would feed to a morbol. Of all the npcs that appear useless this one right here ugh. Wished to give me "Lady of the fetch" too. Would like to slap whoever made that quest chain repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by Jatoi

I want to throw Hien into the sun. After all, the "being cool with human trafficking" thing made me go from apathetic to his existence to revulsion. Not to mention Hien, to me, is what everyone hates about Lyse. Frankly I'm kind of shocked he isn't mentioned here more.

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I'm fine with this. More Hien for me.

Also really like Lyse. People prob think I have terrible taste in characters lol.

For me Lyse is okay writing-wise. It’s her design that irritates me exceedingly and causes her to slot too neatly into a controversial trope.

Mitron is the closest to outright hate you’ll get from me. Asahi as well.

"Hate" is a strong word, but in terms of "a really uneasy dissonance between how the narrative presents them versus how I feel about their actual actions": Merlwyb, Gaius, Hien, Venat.

Zenos. /10char

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

Zenos. /10char

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Same for the single fact that he was such an npc of a character to the point he is the deus ex to bring the player into garlamand. At this point I refer to the story as pre and post zenos when it comes to when the writing started faltering. At least ShB was decent but in hindsight it was only decent because the first was more or less a mystery with very little lore attached to it before they started setting the stage for the first. I really wish the ARR/HW writer came back to finish up the story, oh well.

Estinien, Alphinaud.