parse for ps4 users !

Ppl clear new content because they are useing parse with out parse no 1 can clear any new content on time .I know ppl afraid from parse because they can't doing good dps and ppl will kick them as some ppl said ... Raiding ppl have parse already, screenshot ppl don't want it , I need answers from SE. if they not addit ,changing for pc ,easy for me .if they addit ineedit ppl who want to improve skills need it .as I said before this parse not lligle but 90% from pc user use it . I want ps4 user have all options same as pc to clear content if the parse not important why raiding ppl use it ????

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Generally, shit happens and you have to look at the fight from more than just the angle of the 'DPS check'. I, personally, never give up on a fight until everyone gives up and by that time, well, everyone's given up so there's no point pointing fingers at anyone.

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Did you do Ramuh EX when it came out? How many times have you attempted Bismarck EX, even now with a MUCH higher average iLv between players? Did you do SCoB when it was relevant, or Final Coil? Have you walked into Alex Savage? I'm not trying to attack you, but instead provide examples of fights that had the potential to be very difficult at the time of release due to DPS checks not being met.

How many groups did you encounter that couldn't clear Ramuh's ads before his 1hko attack?

How many times has a BisEX group wiped during the 2 flying serpents, or has had to deal with an surplus of ads in the last phase because the group couldn't kill them in time in order to keep up with the new waves?

When SCoB was new, how many times did Raflessia have to be moved because the bulb in the middle wasn't killed in time? How many times did your group wipe because the superslime wasn't killed fast enough?

How many times did you get a third Heavensfall in T9, or didn't have the DPS to reach a clean transition into the last phase without a Ghost up? How many times was the tank shit out of luck because the first phase was dragged on for too long and they ran out of cooldowns to mitigate Ravensbeak and Raven's Blight?

How many times did you wipe on Imdugud when it came out because there wasn't enough DPS on the ads and he got too many charges?

How many times did you wipe on T12 because the Benus weren't killed in time during the ad phase before the last phase?

How many times did you wipe on T13 because the ad phase wasn't being handled fast enough?

How many times have you wiped in any turn of Alex Savage because every single one requires a high standard of DPS and it wasn't met?

I have provided examples of harder content, but you can even look at easier stuff when it came out, and the sheer number of people that had trouble with the first boss of Pharos Sirius, or the last boss of Haukke Manor HM when it was released, or the second boss of Sastasha HM where he would get too many determination stacks from his gun shooting mechanic, or the second boss of Qarn HM, where enough damage wasn't caused to interrupt its needle attack. You can even look at fights like the last boss of the Vault, where 2 underperforming players will drag on the fight for ages and make the healer's job extremely taxing.

You're describing content like Alex Normal where the group has to be REALLY, REALLY, EXTREMELY bad nowadays in order to wipe from an enrage. I had a group last week on Alex 1 NM where we cleared it with 3 DPS because the fourth one d/ced at the start of the fight and never came back (that's 1 DPS on the Oppressor, 1 on .5, and a ranged switching between the two based on HP percentages). I't not about not looking at fights from the angle of a DPS check, because many fights ARE DPS checks, plain and simple. You can't dismiss fights like the ones I provided above, and it's not my duty either to keep tabs on the performance of DPS players by checking for DoT's, debuffs, buffs, and cast times.

It has been said many times now agan and again, but tanks and healers are expected to perform at a certain level in this game, but oftentimes, DPS players don't share this responsibility according to the general community, especially in a metagame where tanks are often expected to rock Strength accessories. It's a double standard that healers and tanks must perform above a certain threshold, a threshold which has been set much lower for DPS players by the community, to the point where many players see decent DPS output (I repeat, decent, not min-maxing) as a luxury instead of a basic expectation. It is absolutely no secret why the most difficult fights in this game are centered around the DPS player having the most responsibility.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ malevicton

again that has been done well before the internet so you can't state that is factually true.

please you guys sound rediculous, you guys come off and act like parser are the end all be all and act like gaming and rpg didn't exist befor parser. Even table top rpg players therory craft.

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You know stat weights for table top rpgs don't work the same way, right? I've played a lot of them lol, I'm familiar with how they work; but theorycrafting then and now is apples and oranges. They aren't the same systems at all, so comparing them just doesn't work. It's literally impossible to just math out the stat weights. You need sample data from multiple sets to figure out the formulas SE uses.

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Originally Posted by Chif

Ppl clear new content because they are useing parse with out parse no 1 can clear any new content on time .

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This is what I mean by 'eating shoes'... people clear new content without the help of parsers all the time. It's called learning by doing and falls under the purview of knowledge. The idea is simple, go in and learn the mechanics. Once you have the mechanics down it becomes much easier. One of Odett's own examples is a prime... example of learning the dungeon. Pharos Sirius, which I never beat as healer before the nerf, was the healer's dungeon. It was really hard on the healer and before the nerf required you learn the mechanics of the fights really well. I was only really able to beat it as Bard where I could keep the puppies busy to the side, pick off the right eggs and keep Siren's mouth shut. And this was before the nerfs. And never did anyone talk about low DPS in any of my runs.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

This is what I mean by 'eating shoes'... people clear new content without the help of parsers all the time. It's called learning by doing and falls under the purview of knowledge. The idea is simple, go in and learn the mechanics. Once you have the mechanics down it becomes much easier. One of Odett's own examples is a prime... example of learning the dungeon. Pharos Sirius, which I never beat as healer before the nerf, was the healer's dungeon. It was really hard on the healer and before the nerf required you learn the mechanics of the fights really well. I was only really able to beat it as Bard where I could keep the puppies busy to the side, pick off the right eggs and keep Siren's mouth shut. And this was before the nerfs. And never did anyone talk about low DPS in any of my runs.

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Because dps totally matters in casual content.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

This is what I mean by 'eating shoes'... people clear new content without the help of parsers all the time. It's called learning by doing and falls under the purview of knowledge. The idea is simple, go in and learn the mechanics. Once you have the mechanics down it becomes much easier. One of Odett's own examples is a prime... example of learning the dungeon. Pharos Sirius, which I never beat as healer before the nerf, was the healer's dungeon. It was really hard on the healer and before the nerf required you learn the mechanics of the fights really well. I was only really able to beat it as Bard where I could keep the puppies busy to the side, pick off the right eggs and keep Siren's mouth shut. And this was before the nerfs. And never did anyone talk about low DPS in any of my runs.

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Your have solid points, but you cannot use 4 person content and the Normal mode version of a raid while ignoring everything else (like all the fights I listed above). The DPS required for current 8 person raiding content is much higher than any of the examples you've listed. DPS checks exist in this game, and wiping due to failed DPS checks on current raid content is a very real thing. Once people learn mechanics, there are no deaths, and certain sections of the fight are still not being cleared, or the boss reaches the enrage timer, trust me when I say that things can get very frustrating if you don't have a means of finding out why. Why is it frustrating? Because no one is dying, it seems like you're doing everything you're supposed to, but you keep losing. With a parser, if low DPS is a problem after all this, then you can start working on that and addressing that. Realizing "my damage is a bit low compared to everyone else's" or "all we gotta do now is have this person improve their DPS" can bring positivity to this occurrence, because this knowledge gives you something to work towards and a hope that fixing this problem will net you a victory, instead of the very frustrating "we seem to be doing everything right, yet we keep wiping again and again. What do?".

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I haven't been in many groups where a 'DPS check' not being met was the result of someone slacking. I was in some of the early Alexander runs and there were a few where we wiped to Self Destruct, but it wasn't because of slacking. At least, not outright slacking. Sometimes one DD would be left with two spiders while the other DD on that particular boss just kept wailing on the boss, causing that one DD observing mechanics to get Mini'd. Or the one holding the spiders would receive the blessing of RNGesus and get bombed while trying to kill the spiders. Generally, shit happens and you have to look at the fight from more than just the angle of the 'DPS check'. I, personally, never give up on a fight until everyone gives up and by that time, well, everyone's given up so there's no point pointing fingers at anyone.

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Of course there can be various reasons why a DPS check failed, it doesn't have to be someone slacking.
But even then, a parser points you into the right direction.

When My FC did Bismarck EX for the first time, we noticed that one of the BLM was doing rather low DPS thanks to a parser (he didn't notice). It was because of mechanics, not because he didn't want to perform, so we gave him pointers, where he can mostly stand in one place, and it went way better (we didn't clear in the end because we failed 3rd phase, but at least we got to the 3rd phase...).
You can't notice stuff like that without a parser.

Or lets say you fail Faust in Alex Savage, that's a DPS check that has ZERO mechanics, you just stand there and beat on him. Without a parser it's REALLY hard to see who needs help (be it more optimal rotation, better gear, or buffs).

Or lets say you are playing AST - Balance is % based, so it's worth more to put it on the player who does the most DPS. How are you supposed to know that without a parser? Keep in mind that the difference can easily be more than 100 DPS, which can be "make or break" in many DPS checks.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Because dps totally matters in casual content.

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LOL @ calling pre-nerf Pharos Sirius casual.

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Originally Posted by Chif

Ppl clear new content because they are useing parse with out parse no 1 can clear any new content on time

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I have to say that this is one of the most ignorant and insulting things I've seen on this forum in a long time. Please just stop posting BS like this. The idea that players without a parser are no good and can't clear content is simply asinine. You detract greatly from the position of parser advocates every time you post something like this.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

LOL @ calling pre-nerf Pharos Sirius casual.



I have to say that this is one of the most ignorant and insulting things I've seen on this forum in a long time. Please just stop posting BS like this. The idea that players without a parser are no good and can't clear content is simply asinine. You detract greatly from the position of parser advocates every time you post something like this.

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So you ignore every constructive post about the advantages of parsers and instead choose to reply to these types of responses. How are you contributing to this thread?

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Originally Posted by Odett

So you ignore every constructive post about the advantages of parsers and instead choose to reply to these types of responses. How are you contributing to this thread?

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That's not my only post in this or any other of these discussions. Though I can't help the irony of your post.

I'd be entertained if you could give us your view on Chif's words as quoted in my post.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

...

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I think that by now we have estabilished that Chif wants to be the best - to clear the content first.

Have any of the world first groups claimed that they done it without the parser? I totally admit assumption on my part, but I find it highly unlikely.

btw. I would also blame the language barrier for a part of Chif's straightforwardness.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That's not my only post in this or any other of these discussions. Though I can't help the irony of your post.

I'd be entertained if you could give us your view on Chif's words as quoted in my post.

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I've stated a few pages back about how I am for the implementation of parsers to PS4 players, but I don't agree with Chif, so there's your answer to that. I'm not sure why my post is ironic, seeing as I posted something else in this page that no one has bothered to reply to, and sirDarts brought up very good points in their post as well, yet you choose to ignore those and instead focus on posts that have added nothing useful to this thread.

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Originally Posted by Odett

So you ignore every constructive post about the advantages of parsers and instead choose to reply to these types of responses. How are you contributing to this thread?

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You certainly haven't been reading his or her posts. I would venture to say they been some of the more reasoned and well thought out posts here. Try taking the time to actually read them.

DC Universe has an in-game scoreboard. It's not a parser, per se, but it shows damage and stuff:

http://i.imgur.com/dB7OgZL.png?1

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

You certainly haven't been reading his or her posts. I would venture to say they been some of the more reasoned and well thought out posts here. Try taking the time to actually read them.

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Tbh, she has ignored everything that refutes her points. And has taken offense to constructive critism at her half baked ideas. She intentionally makes suggestions that would actually make parsers more prone to abuse, and then basically says "see, you even admit that people will rampantly abuse them!", when you point these things out. If you offer a totally reasonable suggestion that would make hers work, she ignores it or intentionally misinterpets it.

At first I took it as an extreme bias, based on a parents protective instinct, something I can fully understand, even if I dont agree with her view. But as I have read her posts I have been leaning to more selfish reasons. People have been reading them, at least at the start, and refuting each one. After the above listed behaviour, along with a few condecending and backhanded "I'm done!" posts, is it any wonder effort is not put into responding.

Tbh, I don't agree for a second with Chifs reasoning, and think very little of him. Though I think a lot of it is a language barrier thing on his part, he could probably try a bit harder to make his points clear. But as is, to me he represents a mirror to kosmos. He sees only what he wants and posts it, ignoring any good points and spraying ingnorant blab all ver his posts.

I think it's good to have him talk though, as I feel he is of that small crowd that would be rough with them and working off of half truths an no longer important info to make his assumptions. That he is one of so few to speak that way highlights the difference from being pro-parser and your a-hole elitest. Also he demosrates perfectly the additude you would see from one of them versus someone using it to properly evaluate troublesome runs.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

DC Universe has an in-game scoreboard. It's not a parser, per se, but it shows damage and stuff:

http://i.imgur.com/dB7OgZL.png?1

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It shows more than just that as well. I can't remember how many pages there are, three or four. DCUOs has the glaring issue of not showning the class or role either. Also, each job can swap between dps and their support role, so that can skew your reading of it, if you werent in the run. One here would be much more clear, if only for not being able to swap roles. I can't remember if one of the pages actually has a dps stat or not though. You can pull it up at any time to see how each persons numbers moved after a boss or mob though.

You can view this one at any time, its just much more clumsy than an overlay. I took part in a couple of discussions of it while I played the game and there were numerous suggestions for improvement. It was an example of a clumsy scoreboard that you really had to understand to read.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

You certainly haven't been reading his or her posts. I would venture to say they been some of the more reasoned and well thought out posts here. Try taking the time to actually read them.

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I have, and her points have been answered again and again. "Why do you need to know your number?" Because some players want to see how much damage they are doing, and yes, you can read your skills and understand how your job works, but there is so much more that can be answered outside of that. NIN is a great example for this. Mudra lag exists, and I'd like to know how much of it is getting in the way of my DPS. How can test out for myself, without a parser, if going the Fuma Shuriken route would increase or decrease my DPS?

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, sometimes, honestly, because the following question keeps being brought up but there is never an answer to it. What do you do when nobody in a fight is dying, mechanics are done correctly, and you are still wiping? How do you find out why you are failing DPS checks in fights when everyone is alive? Why would you not want a way to measure DPS without splitting your head open with the combat log and see what the problem is, so you can fix it instead of starting the fight again after four+ wipes in the same section, not changing anything (because you can't figure out what the problem is) and expecting different results?

Also (unless they are posting as an alt, then I am very sorry), how much credibility can you give to a person who doesn't have a single DoW/DoM job at 60 and has absolutely zero first-hand experience with the current endgame content?

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

DC Universe has an in-game scoreboard. It's not a parser, per se, but it shows damage and stuff:

http://i.imgur.com/dB7OgZL.png?1

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the problem lies when a fight isn't being completed due to lack of DPS. A scoreboard at the end of a fight is just a nice "by the way" thing, but it would do nothing to fix issues where a fight isn't being completed in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Odett

I have, and her points have been answered again and again.

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Oh you mean like the half dozen or so pro parsers in here who repeat themselves on a daily basis or the OP who continually and shamelessly bumps this thread daily with little or nothing new to add. If you aren't pro parser in here you aren't welcome obviously and there have been plenty of reasoned replies as to why parsers would be an issue in places like duty finder. It doesn't take many people to make the playing field toxic and I strongly believe that if they are approved that is exactly what will happen. The negatives to implementing official parsers outweigh the positives and is why many people are opposed to them.

you guys ignore the answers simple as that.

You pass off pro parser stuff as fact when it isn't, its all assumption and conjecture.

I don't want a parser cuz i don't want DF to be excluded even more then it is now, And its people like sirdarts who i rather not see (look at the thread over a suggestion to add more party finder tools alot of their replies have been add a parser and excluding players) with a parse in their hands. Its basic human nature and should be understood that given the tools people will exclude othes.


And please....... stop using level and endgame as part of credibility. thats just stupid.

not everyone uses their main characters to post on the forums.

And the parser just present data already avalible ina game as a ratio. You can read individual hits to see who low. because a ratio is just the sum of the calculation over the progress of time. (aka damage per second) You guys act so smart and good, but you need a tool to factor in a ratio of already presented data.

I don't read numbers well due to my disability so i have mine turned off, but there is no real excuise why a bunch of hardcore pro gamers can't do on the fly ratio calculatuions with battle log text. Ratio are not hard to figure out, and this is from someone who sucks at math.

What people don't like is a set of players forcing their playstyle on others. Not everyone wants or needs a parser for all different reason, and so far when we say our side we are insulted, going as far as being called a troll. Or saying we can't have an opinion if we don't have a lvl 60 or been in alex savage.

No offence but ingame group parser will effect everyone if it gets added, wouldn't matter if its raid content or not. And enough of you guys have blatently stated stuff that comes off that you want to exclude players in DF, I've been lerking on these forums since 1.0, and remember a good bit of each persons post.

To be honest, i think its a weakness to play a game with third party tools, i never take anyone who uses a third party tools as a serious gamer. Much like anyone who used a game shark and acts pro.
some people here act like their addicted to third party tools, and MUST have them to play a video game. To the point where they force it on everyone.

Sorry I don't want a tool forced on me, if that not a good enough reason for yall. Then i suggest play a pc only mmo. Cuz I'm honestly sick and tired of this mindset that you need tools to play a video game. Video games are not that hard, seems more like you guys don't wanna practice to get better you need a tool to win.

Now who is the more lazy person, a person who uses a parser to limit practicing content? Or a player who practices content and masters it.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

The negatives to implementing official parsers outweigh the positives and is why many people are opposed to them.

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The assumption that negatives outweight the positives is why many people are opposed to them. Fixed it for ya. :)

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Oh you mean like the half dozen or so pro parsers in here who repeat themselves on a daily basis or the OP who continually and shamelessly bumps this thread daily with little or nothing new to add. If you aren't pro parser in here you aren't welcome obviously and there have been plenty of reasoned replies as to why parsers would be an issue in places like duty finder. It doesn't take many people to make the playing field toxic and I strongly believe that if they are approved that is exactly what will happen. The negatives to implementing official parsers outweigh the positives and is why many people are opposed to them.

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You read my post and that's all you got out of it?

The only reason why so many players are repeating themselves is because their questions are always conveniently left unanswered (like you just did right now).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Oh you mean like the half dozen or so pro parsers in here who repeat themselves on a daily basis or the OP who continually and shamelessly bumps this thread daily with little or nothing new to add. If you aren't pro parser in here you aren't welcome obviously and there have been plenty of reasoned replies as to why parsers would be an issue in places like duty finder. It doesn't take many people to make the playing field toxic and I strongly believe that if they are approved that is exactly what will happen. The negatives to implementing official parsers outweigh the positives and is why many people are opposed to them.

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Could you list the negatives and positives as you see them? In point form. I believe we know most of the reasons behind each point this far into the thread.
I'm actually really interested in what you see in them, that you would rate them as being more negative than positive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

And please....... stop using level and endgame as part of credibility. thats just stupid.

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Tbh, it does lend a little bit of credibility. It shows that you actually play all of the content, and therfore can understand better what people are saying when the referance certian content to make a point. It also shows that you have put in at least bit of time to your classes and should have a better understanding of how each role opperates in each bit of content. It would probably take less time and effort to take a clss from 50-60, than she has put into this thread is a bit telling. Now obviously we don't know how hard she played the game prior to HW, but it is a little extreme to not have one of the jobs fully leveled by now. So well it is not the be all and end all of credibility. It can be a bit telling.

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Originally Posted by Odett

Also (unless they are posting as an alt, then I am very sorry), how much credibility can you give to a person who doesn't have a single DoW/DoM job at 60 and has absolutely zero first-hand experience with the current endgame content?

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Ah, once again, people belittling others rather than addressing points made.

This isn't an alt, I don't have any class/job at 60, and I've already stated why that is the case, I don't feel the need to do so again. What you are saying though is really wrong. You don't need a lvl 60 class/job to know about endgame content, or how you can develop a decent skill rotation. It seems many have forgotten that the ARR level cap was 50, and i have 5 classes/jobs at 50. I don't like end-game content in this game, I dislike the stress it induces on tanks and healers. However, I fail to see how my opinions can lack credibility because I don't have a level 60 job/class yet. The day before HW lanched you and I would both have had lvl 50 characters, would my opinion bear any less weight then? No, it wouldn't, so why should it now. You make it sound like something special happens between 50 and 60 that makes someone's opinion about parser use somehow more relevant than another. What a load of rubbish. If knowing how to learn your skills or develope a good rotation is now dependent on being level 60, how did anyone do it?

I've repeated stated I'm not talking about end-game content in any case, so whether I have done any end-game content in this game is irrelevant, of course this isn't my first mmorpg or rpg, and I dare say I've played RPGs in one form or another longer than many forum posters have been alive. Be that as it may, in this discussion and others before it, people have claimed over and over that parsers are necessary to overcome dps check in non-end-game content. I have stated quite a large number of times that I can see a role for such a tool when trying to overcome a specific dps check in end-game content. So I'm really not sure why you wish to harp on about my completion of any end game content, that would be highly relevsnt if I was commenting on end-game specifics, but since I'm not...

Still, thank you so much for switching to ad hominem mode, I do so love character assasination by Lodestone. I always wonder why it is that people switch to attacking me, perhaps it's because they can't argue my points, and so attempting to discredit me is an easier option?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

However, I fail to see how my opinions can lack credibility because I don't have a level 60 job/class yet.

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Its like that guy at work that has to tell someone every day how long he's been doing it for. Makes them feel just a bit more important. Anyways though, its too much stress on the system. Can't get one more retainer due to limitations imagine what a group wide parser would do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Still, thank you so much for switching to ad hominem mode, I do so love character assasination by Lodestone. I always wonder why it is that people switch to attacking me, perhaps it's because they can't argue my points, and so attempting to discredit me is an easier option?

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Tbh, after pages of you ignoring all points against yours, making blanket statements, showing extreme bias, and intentinally misinterpting arguments, is it any wonder that people start wondering where you are viewing this from?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I think you need to learn more about human nature.

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Also, this was the first thing you said to me in a parser thread, well reasoned counter? Or personal attack aimed at discrediting?

@ whiteroom

that just....... dumb....... It doesn't take a lvl 60 or alex savage to understand what is being said. Your taking a character for face value, and pretty muich stating no one with those requirements can make an opinion about the suggestion of something added that effects EVERYONE

and it scientifically not an assumption that the negatives out waight the positives. Just look at gaming, history, and human nature.

Male gamers in the pro leagues have infact excluded females stated they suck at games. (there has been a study on this google it)

Humans always find ways to exclude themselves to be better then someone else, from slavery to poverty, to skin color. (history google it)

It also happens in everygame parser are ok'ed people exclude others if given the tools to, people already exclude others for being new by either leaving or kicking them, there is no assumption that people will exclude others. People would do it now if parser were not against the ToS

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Originally Posted by Chif

Ppl clear new content because they are useing parse with out parse no 1 can clear any new content on time .I know ppl afraid from parse because they can't doing good dps and ppl will kick them as some ppl said ... Raiding ppl have parse already, screenshot ppl don't want it , I need answers from SE. if they not addit ,changing for pc ,easy for me .if they addit ineedit ppl who want to improve skills need it .as I said before this parse not lligle but 90% from pc user use it . I want ps4 user have all options same as pc to clear content if the parse not important why raiding ppl use it ????

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npot everyone can calculate ration on the fly thats all a parser does. Not all raiders use them, because not all raiders are pc. A good portion of jp players are console and raid on console. I raided in content before the parser wars started back on ff11. Only post wow mmo parse to my understanding because i didn't hear of parser till post WoW.

@whiteroom

And that is absolutely true. People on the pro parse side are forgetting human nature. So i agree with that person as I've been saying that from the start. A fact people continue to undermind.
My stance has been DF exclusion and everyone 1 of the counter points against mine can be summed up as "you're a fear mongering idiot, who has no idea what she is talking about, you're just a troll." Even though what i stated was true. Which has been throught history human nature will use tools given to them to exclude others.

They also act like you NEED parser to play the game (again not true)

@ anc

its not your call to controll how a player can play their character, DF is suppose to be all inclusive, if you want to be exclusionary that is what pf is for.

And i'm sorry but i do have personal experience with the negativity on being exclusionary.
I quit WoW for a number a reasons and often went back to try again, one thing I DISPISE is addon/tool enforcement. I did want to give WoW a solid try because i found the game fun, but pretty much the commuinity kicked me out, tey mass reported me for being called a w-h-0-r-3. And heavily insulted me when i couldn't downlown their required addons, being called lazy at the least i can't repeat what the worstr of it was, All due to the pc was shared across 5 people.

I do not wanna sree that shi in ff14, I don't want people to experience what I was subjected to. I'm autistic ffs, I have a hard enough time in the real would from exclusion, i don't wanna see it in a video game of all places, its completely petty and childish to jump on people who don't meet your rediculous standards.

Shut the f up with the fear mongering finger pointing. ZYou pro parser people ruin perfectly fun games with ur rediculous mindsets. Its all numbers numbers numbers. sry but not all games are about numbers. If you guyts can't figure out a dps check w/o a tool how can you claim to be a gamer ><

Sorry i'm just fking pissed off from the level of immaturity of some people.

Having an exclusive DF is NOT something we need, if other players performance bug you that much, you have issues. Start playing with people of your opinion/mindset and stop forcing your stupid mindset on everyone.

If you need a parser to do a basic mathmatical ratio stop playing a game and go learn ratio calulations cuz that all a fking parser does does the math for you.

@ oddet

shut the f up you are being a dick to kosmos. I read all ur replies all you do is belittle them, stfu already and stop trying to one up kosmos, you act like my ex boyfriend........


@ whiteroom

sirdarts chif drayer i can't spell everyones name. Anc acts like it a bit. Pretty much every pro parser person who replied to me since i said VERY NICELY parser are not needed. I was picked apart, and called a troll. Even thought what I said was the truth, they just don't wanna see it as such. Or rather don't believe it.

You also can't rebuff what you stated, thats contradicting yourself.

this has been what has been (paraphrased)

1) parsers are needed for dps checks
2) anyone against parsers are scared their low dps will be kicked. (stated as all people who don't parse suck)
3) parser figure everything out from rotations to stat waights.
4) parser are needed to improve.
5) anyone against parser is a fear mongering troll
6) parser are not against the ToS


those are stated as facts time and time again. Thing is they are not facts at all, just assumptions/conjecture.

What is fact is human nature, people will set rediculous standards based on personal performance, and exclude anyone who can't reach it, this has been going on fir Eons. Given the tools and ideals people will exclude others. I don't care if people do it in pf. I don't want to see it in DF, and if a parser is put ingame all content will be subjected to it.

And people undermind the reality of that down playing it for their cause (again human nature) or going as far as to say, who cares if people are excluded it forces them to be better.

Thing is you can't force a person to learn, nor should you force your ideals/mindset/playstyle them.

I have autism, it effects my coordination, should I be excluded for something i can't control? Should i be treated poorly over something arbitrary?

I'm not lazy, and do everythinbg i can to improve. I'm not good at reading numarical data outside %'s geomarty and trig, so i should be penilized?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ whiteroom

that just....... dumb....... It doesn't take a lvl 60 or alex savage to understand what is being said. Your taking a character for face value, and pretty muich stating no one with those requirements can make an opinion about the suggestion of something added that effects EVERYONE

and it scientifically not an assumption that the negatives out waight the positives. Just look at gaming, history, and human nature.

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Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Tbh, it does lend a little bit of credibility. It shows that you actually play all of the content, and therfore can understand better what people are saying when the referance certian content to make a point. It also shows that you have put in at least bit of time to your classes and should have a better understanding of how each role opperates in each bit of content. It would probably take less time and effort to take a clss from 50-60, than she has put into this thread is a bit telling. Now obviously we don't know how hard she played the game prior to HW, but it is a little extreme to not have one of the jobs fully leveled by now. So well it is not the be all and end all of credibility. It can be a bit telling.

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Now read what I said, and read what you said. Then do that again. Do you see some inconsistancies with your response? It reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon someone on these forums has as their sig. I'm gonna go see if I can find it.
Found it: http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-07
Also, care to qualify that last part of your post I left in?

Also, who are the "THEY" who say you need a parser to play the game? Could you provide quotes please? I figure Chif has probably said it, but I haven't bothered with many of his posts. As far as I have seen, people are saying it would greatly improve troubleshooting, rotation testing, self improvement, and sorting out trolls, amongst other things.

You seem to be applying what you want people to be saying over what they actually are, and then arguing against that.


And a final, you seem to keep bringing up that people can easily do everything, or at least most things a parser can do, with the battle log. From that viewpoint you could say the game already has a very clumsy one, so why are you against a refined one, that allows everyone to use it, and is far less clumsy and easier to read?

I agree that parser is going to affect all players no matter their level, so everyone sould be free to express their opinion and eat the flames for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

...

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Okay for now I am going to pretend that all your worst parser horror stories are going to happen. Do I think negatives outweigh positives in such a scenario?

... Nope.

If somebody is being harassed or excluded due to their performance I as a player am able to fix it.

If somebody is not playing properly no matter the reason - I as a player can't fix it for the lack of tools. There are exceptions like spotting out half-afking monk, but in most cases you can't tell which dps is causing fails or more work for the healer.

tl;dr I wouldn't say negatives outweigh positives.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Ah, once again, people belittling others rather than addressing points made.

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You mean just like how you decided not to address any other point in the same post you're quoting?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

However, I fail to see how my opinions can lack credibility because I don't have a level 60 job/class yet.

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Because many players have pointed out the advantages of a parser in fights where a DPS has more responsibility than a tank or healer, like BisEX and Faust in A1S, and you've never made it a point to address that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I've repeated stated I'm not talking about end-game content in any case, so whether I have done any end-game content in this game is irrelevant

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That's completely fine, but at the same time you cannot use that to discredit every time someone makes a point about the boons of parsers in endgame content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

people have claimed over and over that parsers are necessary to overcome dps check in non-end-game content. I have stated quite a large number of times that I can see a role for such a tool when trying to overcome a specific dps check in end-game content.

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I definitely agree with you on that, but it seems a little contradictory because you HAVE gotten defensive in previous posts whenever someone answers a post you've made opposing parser. Also, if players are having a discussion for parsers in endgame, and you reply with your reasons for not needing a parser for content that's not endgame, wouldn't that be a little off-topic. At the same time, I HAVE been in fights where slow DPS has caused wipes in where minimal or very little DPS checks are involved. Last week I helped out my friend in The Vault on the last boss. I was a WAR and she was a WHM. When the flames appeared, there would be 3 flames up before the "purge" attack, which led to her having to heal more. That's not really a big deal, but the fight would get so slow that her MP would run out (she knew when to use Shroud of Saints) because the DPS players were doing such a poor job. Yes, we could look at debuffs, buffs, DoT's, but at the same time, that's not really my job as a tank, you know? I shouldn't be looking out that the DPS players are performing as they should by constantly looking at buffs, dot's, and debuffs. If I do spot these things, and I know how to play the person's job, I can give out some helpful advice, but at the same time, if I don't have the slightest clue about how to play a job at lv 57-58 (like MCH, for example), I can't do much about that. Yes, in the past you've said that a bad player will be a bad player regardless of parser use or not, and I again completely agree with you on that, but there are also many players who think they're doing fine while they're not. Having numerical proof of low DPS values would reinforce someone's point when they say "Hey, we're not getting this fight done due to low DPS, and here are the numbers; let's work on fixing that".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I always wonder why it is that people switch to attacking me, perhaps it's because they can't argue my points, and so attempting to discredit me is an easier option?

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This can go both ways, you know. I haven't seen you argue many of my points and instead you've chosen to focus on how I'm attacking you.

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Originally Posted by Odett

This can go both ways, you know. I haven't seen you argue many of my points and instead you've chosen to focus on how I'm attacking you.

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Because you are

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Because you are

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Does this cover how you have responded to him before he went that route as well?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Because you are

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Someone takes the time to respond to your post, individually addressing your points and answering them...and you reply with 3 words? I do not wish in attempting to communicate with someone who refuses to provide a constructive argument and instead types 3 words, or views every response as a personal attack (after I agreed with you on certain points, too) while cherry picking responses and intentionally choosing not to address valid arguments made in the same post, or misinterpreting them, so I'll wish you a good day and end it here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Tbh, after pages of you ignoring all points against yours, making blanket statements, showing extreme bias, and intentinally misinterpting arguments, is it any wonder that people start wondering where you are viewing this from?

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Ignoring all points against mine? I've only ever replied to others in this topic, and were appropriate responded to their reply to me. You may categorize my replies however you wish, I could counter by pointing out how hostile you are right now.

Quote:

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Also, this was the first thing you said to me in a parser thread, well reasoned counter? Or personal attack aimed at discrediting?

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Well reasoned counter given that you were completely ignoring the impact of human nature with regard to both parser mis-use and how people react to criticism.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Ignoring all points against mine? I've only ever replied to others in this topic, and were appropriate responded to their reply to me. You may categorize my replies however you wish, I could counter by pointing out how hostile you are right now.


Well reasoned counter given that you were completely ignoring the impact of human nature with regard to both parser mis-use and how people react to criticism.

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Considering it was a response to my assertion that it is human nature to not want to perform incredibly poorly and that most would look to improve themselves if they were able to see when they were?
You would believe that everyone, or at least most, who are playing poorly now is doing so on purpose? Yet you start with that? We reasoned... yeah.
Also at no point did I ignore that there would be a select few that would abuse it. I and many others have been quick to point out that these people exist, as people seem to think we believe that there is no one who would harass others. So please tell me how that was a well reasoned counter again.

As for me being hostile, lol, no. I pointed out the reasons people were acting that way to you, and yet again you ingored points. You have been replying yes, but not to whats been said in most cases. Ignoing the very valid points and solutions presented to you, and instead attacking a random tidbit as if it were the meat of the coversation.

Look no further than when you brought up selective parsing as a prime example.


Tbh, I think these differences in bias are the real things to talk about here, as they are getting in the way of this topic actually progressing. This is why I asked that person on the last page to bullet point what they viewed as positive and negative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Oh you mean like the half dozen or so pro parsers in here who repeat themselves on a daily basis

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Oh you mean like the half dozen or so anti parsers in here who repeat themselves on a daily basis or who continually and shamelessly bumps this thread daily with little or nothing new to add.

As stated, a LOT of toxicity comes because of players underperforming to the content requirements and stopping players from clearing content. As since I first saw parsers in EQ1 I have only had one case of getting called out on my results, when I decided to try DPS for the first time.

Then in numerous MMOs which use parsers I have NEVER seen this imagined toxicity that anti-parser users keep throwing out there.

Addon support IS coming, according to SE. So you better get used to getting a parser as that WILL be one of the first addons created for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

you guys ignore the answers simple as that.

You pass off pro parser stuff as fact when it isn't, its all assumption and conjecture.

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Yet you are passing off your assumption, conjecture and personal opinon as be all and end all fact. Your opinions are not more valid than anyone elses unless you have solid, tangible proof to refute it. Which you have not. Only personal opinion/experience. My personal experience with MMOs that incorporated parsers in one form or another are contrary to yours and just because it is contrary does not make an assumption or conjecture.

You saying it will cause more toxicity is conjecture as you cannot predict the future, you can only base you opinions on experience and as commonly the case, biase.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

You can pull the scoreboard up at any time, not just after everything is done.

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ah, excuse my ignorance then

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odett

ah, excuse my ignorance then

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lol... I hoped no one replied. I was slow to delete my comment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

lol... I hoped no one replied. I was slow to delete my comment.

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Its a hot topic during downtime between patches. Someone is always watching. If you visit, you will be dragged back in.

So excuse me for this but after reading this for days I want to point out something all my pro-parser m8 failed or just didn't though to point out, something that in fact hopefully someone can quote me if any ANTI-PARSER decides to come by again so they can stop flaming this threat with nonsense and focus on the main point (which) I hardly agree and needs to be implemented ASAP ( a parser for PS4 )


so here I go....

"PARSER HAS BEEN AROUND THIS GAME SINCE 2.0 OR EVEN 1.X 100% OF THE PC USERS HAVE ACCESS TO IT AND PRETTY SURE 90% OF THEM HAVE IT """CURRENTLY"""" """""""IN"""""" """""""GAME""""""" ALREADY! [[[[[[[[TODAY]]]]]]] //////NOW////// HAS IT INTOXICATED OUR COMMUNITY?????????????? ////////////////[[[[[[[NO!]]]]]]]]/////////////

http://az598155.vo.msecnd.net/wp-upl...mind-blown.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rfFWukr.gif



Seriously I fail to understand why this is even a topic that has been so stretched on this threat or even discussed on any other threat. I failed to reason to the logic of ANTI-PARSER acting like if there aren't parsers already in-game. can someone abuse it? yes, of course, as so they can abuse any other kind of method in-game (gear,weapon,rotation,abilities used etc...) is this the only reason you have to point out to tell me parsers are bad? yes! ... now let me tell you why that's so just plain insignificant compare to how much it brings...

1)it's already being used ///////as we speak//////.

2) it definitely helps you improve your dps as any class, just using your rotation isn't enough yes you can do your rotation without it, BUT YOU CANNOT IMPROVE THAT ROTATION ON DIFFERENT SCENARIOS AND PULL OUT ALL YOUR DPS POSSIBLE. (you can run fast without a timer, but you will not now if after running 300 times you improve your speed) this is a no brainer when it comes to parser there no "buts" in this topic and if you tell me "you don't need it" and you don't have one then your point is completely invalid as you never now the difference in your dps with parser or without parser "FISH CAN'T NOTICE THE WATER" and so a blind man can't see colors.

3) everything we have evolved so far in this game has been "with parser" and this is a OF COURSE YES there's no counter point on this.... (rotations, theoricrafters, gruides, stats, hell even BIS) everything ALL OF THIS that just improve our quality life in this game has been with the help of parser.

4) it's a MUST on end game, No group in AS or BCOB or SCOB or TCOB has beaten those fight (PRE GUIDE/NERFS) without it, it's just not possible, it's a TOOL required for those fight and no you cannot simply look at your battle log, no simply looking at every single number I hit helps, there are other factors like AUTO ATTACKS, RESISTANCES and BUFFS you cannot calculate all this by hand no where in a 10000000 years.

5) as a raid leader, CALLING OUT WHO'S UNDER PERFORMING IS NOT HARASSING if you are on a raid content you "MUST" be at 100% you "MUST" be pulling out all the juice you have in your class that's just the "minimum" required from you in such situation and then the rest is know how to use all those abilities on those battle scenarios. If someone if pulling my group back and refuses to improve I'm in my free and valid will to kik them out and replace for someone who can play better, I also pay for this and I also have real life work and studies and my experience as well as anyone experience should be hurt by anyone.

6) at this point it should be clear enough but well... as someone else said in this threat I just going to use his words (YOU DON'T NEED RUNNING SHOES TO RUN, BUT IT CERTAINLY HELPS and for those who have problems understandind metaphors YOU DON'T NEED A PARSER TO DPS, BUT IT CERTAINLY HELPS)


I don't think I have to much to say left for all this ANTI-PARSER people, I'm pretty sure some will come up with.... "ho but now more people will have it" R- yeah well the majority of the community are on pc, and ps4 users are no different from pc users we are also humans and in fact I think us will care even less about anyone number in easy content since most of us don't have that bad manner from past experience. so please STOP this anti-parser whatever you guys are thinking you are having a point on, it helps and improves people, if you don't want to use good for you DON'T but if anyone want's more tools to improve then let them have it.


NOW! on the real topic YES PS4 NEEDS A PARSER ASAP we don't have the advantages of pc to run third parties programs and if it's implement on the ADD-ONs it will be a bless since most of us are limb to have such tools.