How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

im staying away from old det foods, because the overall stats are lower. dunno about new ones

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Originally Posted by Dervy

1) That "Effects end upon reuse" only affects Enhanced Wheeling Thrust and Shaper Claw & Fang buffs, the procs which enable to use them
2) It only says Weapon Skills - as in GCDs. You can weave any oCD ability in between CT/FT and "4th".
3) BFB has already been shown, even with clipping 1.9 ticks of Chaos Thrust, that it is most potent after Heavy Thrust.
4) You have no room for Pot in your opener.

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Wow, thanks for pointing that out about the buffs (and pot)! I was taking it over and over again and couldn't understand why no one noticed that. Keep up the great posts! No stat point equivalency yet right?

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Originally Posted by seanpez

Wow, thanks for pointing that out about the buffs (and pot)! I was taking it over and over again and couldn't understand why no one noticed that. Keep up the great posts! No stat point equivalency yet right?

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Stat-weights you mean :P. Stat-Equivalence is something different. Not yet, no. Waiting on a few people to sort out Crit/Skillspeed and I'm still gathering gear to re-evaluate my Damage Model. There's a few changes it seems to the base damage of jobs, or how their Strength scales at least, that wasn't documented in the patch notes, on top of figuring out how DET scales AA's once more. Hopefully by the end of next week (before my 3-week hiatus) I should have it all done.

Once we get the weights I'll update my food table and share the link.

So, are you convinced that the potion should go before Chaos Thrust, Aiuri? It definitely gives a better set of buffs across the beginning ~25 seconds, but at the cost of delaying the long-term Geirskogul use schedule by one full combo.

The 175 Bismarck weapon is actually better than the upgraded 170>180 weapon? Really? Like, how much better? Should I not spend my Centurio seals getting the whetstone, because that'd be so great to hear right now.

So after playing around with DRG at 60 for a few days I can say I've gotten a very good handle on the rotation and oGCD usage. The one thing that Ive been having a really hard time with though is Geirskogul. Outside of the opener one, I have no idea how or when to use it. Anyone have any tips for when I should be using it?

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu98763

So after playing around with DRG at 60 for a few days I can say I've gotten a very good handle on the rotation and oGCD usage. The one thing that Ive been having a really hard time with though is Geirskogul. Outside of the opener one, I have no idea how or when to use it. Anyone have any tips for when I should be using it?

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I feel most comfortable using Geirskogul immediately after a FaC or WT as long as, after using FaC or WT, BotD has at least 23 seconds left on it's timer. If it's lower than that I'll delay Geirskogul use to the next FaC/WT and then check for the 23 second threshold.

In a striking dummy environment, my GK uses look like this:

Dervy, Aiurily, Thendiel's standard opener, as you're familiar with, though I'll restate here just for it's own glory's sake:

HT (BL + B4B) > ID (Pot) > Dis (IR + BotD) > CT > (PS + Sweep) > 4th (Jump) > Phleb (DFD) > TT (SSD) > VT (LS + GK) > FT > 4th >

From here I deviate a little bit by playing safely with my BotD timer:

HT > IDC4th (*note: I do not GK here, even though it is possible--with a 2.4 GCD any amount of disconnection from your target will prematurely terminate your BotD buff before you can reach your next FaC/WT, thereby costing you one GK and follow up FaC/WTs for this use of BotD) > Phleb > TTVTFT4th (So therefore I GK right here when the BotD buff-timer is at a safe 25-26 seconds.) >

HT > IDC4th (GK even though the BotD buff-timer is well below 20 seconds--BotD will be ready for use again soon.) > Phleb (***) > TTVT (IR + BotD--both have just come off CD) > FT4th (GK) >

HT > IDC4th > Phleb > TTVTFT4th >

HT > IDC4th (GK) > Phleb > TTVTFT4th (GK) >

HT > IDDis (IR + BotD--just like in the opener; we've now come full circle) > CT4th (GK--And of course, the difference from the opener is the immediate GK after 4th) > Phleb > TTVTFT >

HT > IDC4th (*note: I do not GK here, even though it is possible...etc.) > Phleb > TTVTFT (So therefore I GK here...etc.)

And repeat.

Though I'm not yet sure of the ramifications this has on lining up the most possible GKs with OGCD buffs, I'll leave that to the experts.
I hope this helps you organize your GK usage for now.
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TL;DR

My gk cadence goes:

--opener
--ctcombo

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--ftcombo(gk)--ctcombo(gk)--ft(botd)combo(gk)
--ctcombo--ftcombo
--ctcombo(gk)--ftcomb(gk)--ct(botd)combo(gk)
--ftcombo--ctcombo

--repeat this section ad nauseum
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*** By the way, since this is something I've been really struggling with, Invigorate goes right here, every time, assuming no disconnection from the target--with a 2.4 GCD the timing is perfect.

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Originally Posted by ArtificialxSky

I feel most comfortable using Geirskogul immediately after a FaC or WT as long as, after using FaC or WT, BotD has at least 23 seconds left on it's timer.

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I do this as well, but you can still pull it off right when it hits the 22 second threshold on the dot. The problem I'm having as a DRG that is frustating are boss mechanics that forces me to lose BotD like the Minotaur in Fractal and that stupid bird boss that hides in the mist in the Neverreap dungeon.

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Originally Posted by ArtificialxSky

I feel most comfortable using Geirskogul immediately after a FaC or WT as long as, after using FaC or WT, BotD has at least 23 seconds left on it's timer. If it's lower than that I'll delay Geirskogul use to the next FaC/WT and then check for the 23 second threshold.

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hey we do the same thing >_>
I wait for 24 just to be safe though. though I usually chance it on 22 if I know the fight.

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Originally Posted by Clover210

I do this as well, but you can still pull it off right when it hits the 22 second threshold on the dot. The problem I'm having as a DRG that is frustating are boss mechanics that forces me to lose BotD like the Minotaur in Fractal and that stupid bird boss that hides in the mist in the Neverreap.

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ah 1st world MNK problems that now becomes a 1st world DRG problem :p

What is the general consensus about Life Surge usage? Has any math been done between using it on CD or saving it for something specific?

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Originally Posted by ArtificialxSky

Snip

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Thank you very much! This helps me out a ton. Ill start giving it a go when servers are back up!

What r u guys parsing right now with our new rotation?

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

What r u guys parsing right now with our new rotation?

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Had a little session: No food, no party, no pots. Did about seven ~4:20 parses and then merged them for an average.

i179, here's Lodestone:

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...racter/8083399

http://i60.tinypic.com/s2z2h4.png

I actually like to use Geirskogul right before i refresh BoD with WT/FC because it makes it a lot easier to judge wether or not you are going to lose it.

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Originally Posted by Nominous

The 175 Bismarck weapon is actually better than the upgraded 170>180 weapon? Really? Like, how much better? Should I not spend my Centurio seals getting the whetstone, because that'd be so great to hear right now.

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Not quite better, as full i180 (+i170 accessory) with Bismarck weapon will put you at 2.426 GCD, which isn't that optimal for our Rotation and you'll have to adjust your BotD usage slightly, but if you're trading weapon vs weapon, damage vs damage, yeah, it's a lot better even with AA nerfs. It's 68 Determination we're talking, which scales insanely with high AP/WD.

Is that ur overall dps 4:20 time frame which is 2k?

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Originally Posted by Thendiel

So, are you convinced that the potion should go before Chaos Thrust, Aiuri? It definitely gives a better set of buffs across the beginning ~25 seconds, but at the cost of delaying the long-term Geirskogul use schedule by one full combo.

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looking into this is what sold me on xpot after disembowel. not to mention it lasts for the 2nd 4th if you get fey wind too

personally i don't notice a difference with geirskogul combos actually. if i do HT>ID>xpot>dis>(ir+botd) even, my rotation for geirskogul is still the same. here's the full notation that was in my 3minute parse (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7lRToC_llM) leading up to the first BoTD refresh right before a FT.


HT - (BL+BFB) - ID (BoTD+IR) - Disembowel (Pot) - CT (PS+LSW) - 4th (Jump) - PH (SSD/DFD) - TT (SSD/DFD) - VT (LS+GK) - FT - 4th
HT - ID - Disembowel (LSW) - CT - 4th - PH - TT - VT (Jump) - FT - 4th (GK)
HT - ID (LSW) - Disembowel - CT - 4th (GK) - PH - TT (Invigorate) - VT (IR+BoTD) - FT - (LS+PS) - 4th (BoTD timer - 27s)

so even with BoTD after ID (and i do botd->ir so GK benefits from ir) i still get 3 GKs before the BoTD refresh.

now, my same rotation style, but with id>xpot>dis>(ir+botd)

HT > (BL+BFB) > ID (xpot) > Disembowel (IR+BoTD) > CT (PS+LSW) > 4th (Jump) > PH (DFD/SSD) > TT (DFD/SSD) > VT (LSW+GK) > FT > 4th
HT > ID > Disembowel (LSW) > CT > 4th (GK) > PH > TT > VT (Jump) > FT > 4th (BoTD time - 16s)
HT > ID (LSW) > Disembowel > CT > 4th (GK) > PH > TT (Invigorate) > VT (IR+BoTD) > FT (LS+PS) > 4th (BoTD time - 27s)

3 gks, same amount

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Why thank you! I spent a good 3 hours on my keybinds last night, haha! I seriously recommend everyone to have massive buttons on their window. Makes life a lot easier.

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Yeah, I have giant buttons in the middle of my screen on NIN for TA and Ninjutsu for just this reason.

Thanks again Dervy.

I wasn't able to make it work, but I think that reflects a bit more on me than you lol!

I appreciate the help all the same :)

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

HT - (BL+BFB) - ID (BoTD+IR) - Disembowel (Pot) - CT (PS+LSW) - 4th (Jump) - PH (SSD/DFD) - TT (SSD/DFD) - VT (LS+GK) - FT - 4th

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You naughty little devil you. I was wondering when I used BotD after ID, I would have a few seconds down time and nothing would work for me... It was only then, when I realised you delayed GK application by a whole 10s that it made sense. You do the opposite of what I do:

BOTD #1 = gk after combo 1
BOTD #2 = gk after combo 2

You switch the combo order around. Kinda at least, from what the video shows me anyway. You delay the 4th? GK application further so it fits in with X2 bfbs. Smart.

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

Is that ur overall dps 4:20 time frame which is 2k?

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Not sure where you're seeing 2k, but the picture is a little small. That screen shows 2096185 total damage, which I think you might be confusing with as a decimal making it 2096.185, however, the overall DPS is shown under Enc DPS which is 1077.73.

Any controller users willing to share their configuration? I hit 56 last night and finally got FC. I'm now visualizing how to do my buttons, and ugh...this is a struggle.

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Originally Posted by SpecialKK

Any controller users willing to share their configuration? I hit 56 last night and finally got FC. I'm now visualizing how to do my buttons, and ugh...this is a struggle.

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There was a discussion on page 29 you might find useful.

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

There was a discussion on page 29 you might find useful.

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Yeah I saw that but it sounds....complicated with macro-ing changing hotbars. I'd like to try a normal setup first to see if that would work before I resort to something like that.

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

There was a discussion on page 29 you might find useful.

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might be worth summerizing some of the better points and techniques on the front page

If someone is willing to do a keybinds Write-Up for Console players, I'll put it on the front page. I'm not a console user, so I have no idea.

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

Not sure where you're seeing 2k, but the picture is a little small. That screen shows 2096185 total damage, which I think you might be confusing with as a decimal making it 2096.185, however, the overall DPS is shown under Enc DPS which is 1077.73.

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To enlarge, drag the image to a new tab.

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Originally Posted by ArtificialxSky

To enlarge, drag the image to a new tab.

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Oh, I know. I was just mentioning that since he was getting the numbers all wrong and I was guessing at why he was reading them off wrong.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

If someone is willing to do a keybinds Write-Up for Console players, I'll put it on the front page. I'm not a console user, so I have no idea.

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What's there to write though? A simple keybind setup for controllers with no macro will never fit for every single player since it all comes down to preference. Like, I like having impulse drive on triangle button because that's where I feel it fits but some people like impulse drive on cross because it's done from the back so cross's 6 oclock position is the best. Some might even prefer the square button since it's the 'standard' attack button in action games (they just put the TTT combo on the same slots but different shoulder).

I agree, it's just the same as using a kb, find a set up that you feel comfortable with. I had a panic as i had the same xbar set up for a couple years and was sure i wouldnt be able to retrain my muscle memory. Now when i go into pre 50 stuff i keep wanting to hit my 4th combo button

All this in A B X Y
set 1: HIDC
set 2: Wheeling and fang
set 3. DTTT
set 4: Wheeling and fang

Buffs and jumps placed everywhere else I feel comfortable with (and same for all sets)

No clue where I want Geirskogul. maybe I place it on set 2 and 4 because there is space left.

Yea I agree on the controller keybinds. I mean there are few in general things, like weaponskills on the face buttons so you can move to positionals and attack at the same time. I like Jump on Triangle with TTT just because its every 30 sec, used frequently. Other stuff is like, leg sweep is a stun and it's on the same spots as my stun for war and pld, mercy stroke in same spot on all melee, I always have my self-heals on left d-pad. Invig always the same spot, etc. To each his own in regards to specifics, there are just some general things I think to keep things consistent and easy. Mainly personal preference though.

So what's everyone been getting numbers wise? At i162 - i167 on first boss of fractal, I've been averaging about 1000-1067. Wanna see how high we can go.

I wouldn't try to figure out "where" or "when" to use Geirskogul, you gotta know each fight, when mobs jump, when BotD is coming on recast, and never use it below 20-21s, so right after first B&C/Wheel, then when you're above 21s next.

What troubles me more is now that I get to refresh CT when it still has around 5-7seconds to wear off.

In a scenario where I cannot get the position for Wheeling/Fang right and BotD is still on cool down. What is the better choice?

a) suck it up and hit it with penalty.
b) skip wheeling/fang and delay my next Geirskogul.

I was going to add both the "basic opener" and your complex one to the OP today :). I say yours is more complex as it requires a lot more strict timing and more intensive Geriskogul planning.

this is how i would do the starter, After that use buffs as they come, Geirskogul everytime you have more than 21s and as BotD coming on recast again on normal situations (of course):

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(Battle Litany) > Internal Release > Heavy Thrust >
Power Surge > Impulse Drive > Blood for Blood >
Disembowel > Blood of the Dragon > Chaos Thrust >
Jump > Fang and Claw*Wheeling Thrust* > Dragonfire Dive >
Phlebotomize > Geirskogul > True Thrust >
Spineshatter Dive > Vorpal Thrust > Life Surge >
Full Thrust > Leg Sweep > Fang and Claw*Wheeling Thrust* >

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Is there an alternative opening that doesn't involve too many oGCD compressed into one GCD? The insane skillspeed cap pulverized the already small window I had to blow two CD together and it's literally impossible for me to try and use it without the game rewinding one of the actions. Maybe it's because of server congestion, maybe it's just the same stupid old latency that held me back till now, I don't know. Am I the only one experiencing this?

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

Is there an alternative opening that doesn't involve too many oGCD compressed into one GCD? The insane skillspeed cap pulverized the already small window I had to blow two CD together and it's literally impossible for me to try and use it without the game rewinding one of the actions. Maybe it's because of server congestion, maybe it's just the same stupid old latency that held me back till now, I don't know. Am I the only one experiencing this?

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Like.. you're expecting to be using this shitty SS gear for long? Beside, the rotation i posted has only 1 GC every GCD.