My point was we all cant dress how we want {i'm sure there are some ppl who do wan't to be topless or nude}you said in a world where you can dress as you want i'm saying there is no such world since in lots of places you can't walk around shirtless barefoot or in a costume games have rules as well anyway i don't feel the need to post in here anymore iv stated why i don't wanna see males wear a dress wayy back so love me hate me idc good day^V^Quote:
Originally Posted by Calypsx
New glamour dress on a male (art)
Printable View
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06-08-2015, 06:43 PMSakuraMidori
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06-08-2015, 07:03 PMCalypsx
I don't even know what to say anymore... You think that's going to stop people from wanting more variety? Stop them from wanting more fun and expressive clothing options for their characters?
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06-08-2015, 07:03 PMOce
"I don't want to see it" is the worst argument, smh. Just google male belly dancer, it's really not that unreasonable to want a similar aesthetic outfit for men. Either both exclusive, or both available, it's not a hard thing to understand.
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06-08-2015, 07:05 PMcodofwisdomThis is the second time I've seen Lalafell referred to as potatoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrini
EDIT: It should be Popotos, anyway.
I'll say what I did then: as an Irishman playing a Lalafell, I feel VERY uncomfortable with the prospect.
Back to the matter at hand: has any Admin/Mod/developer made a comment on this thread? It'd be nice to get a somewhat official stance on this, even if it's just to say "we've seen it, and have no comment". -
06-08-2015, 07:21 PMLaerune
Want to wear this reroll X and Y gender, is BS and we all know this. The moment we all thought Setzer outfit was male only, alot of players with female avatars came and complained for days, untill SE shared the news that female avatars could wear the item. A week after we found out that the Bunny outfit was female only and we complained, yet the same people who complained that Setzer outfit should be uni-sex were against making the Bunny outfit uni-sex. This is insane if someone else is wearing a dress... who cares? Stop being insecure a male avatar in a dress is not going to come and hit on you, your MMO world full of Miqote and Au RA waifus will still be there, so do not worry.
I will be playing a female avatar, so this will not affect me, but this does not mean this is fair. Male avatar or female avatar, the players behind them should be treated as equal and I fear this is something alot of players are simply not understanding. -
06-08-2015, 07:37 PMOnikimaruHell yeah!. Nice choice of words good sir, sure it might be a little brutish but at this point it's the only way to help everybody out. I myself don't walk around in skirts, unless you classify monk gear as skirts :P. But i am a huge promoter of gender equality and this should be a thing. I waited to post here just to see how many people were distraught over the matter, and it would seem a lot of people are passionate about this so i am showing my support!.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laerune
Gender equality SE, MAKE IT HAPPEN!. -
06-08-2015, 11:01 PMAeyisEdit: Samcaesar already argued everything I would (and probably better).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugiawara
However for future reference, consider if your reading what you think you are reading.
Because I think you werent angry at my post, you were already angry at that point and thus misread my intent. -
06-08-2015, 11:59 PMGramulI actually don't have a problem with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SakuraMidori
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06-09-2015, 12:01 AMStrejdaTom
What I have just seen... my eyes burn..
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06-09-2015, 12:43 AMDefteros
I, as a gay man who spend too much time watching rupaul drag race, don't like this dress >_>
it's... dunno. too femminine.
I'm probably too picky thou, so just ignore me y_y -
06-09-2015, 12:57 AMMiniPrinny
I've been keeping quiet. Mostly because, I don't mind the suggestion. But seriously, the chest cloth just... no. Why? It just looks tacky on men and removes one of the biggest parts of sex appeal to men in skimpy clothing, their chests. Most women (and men) would prefer to see men wearing this sort of clothing with just the skirt and detached sleeves. Having the chest cloth removes a key component of the inherent sexuality in the outfit. So, yes. Please, adjust most of this outfit to fit men, just redesign the chest so it's a bare chest with some gold jewelry and detached sleeves.
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06-09-2015, 01:31 AMAvalt
There once was an Au Ra named Raeth, who was so upset about the gender locked attire he took it upon himself to send a message to Square Enix.
http://i.imgur.com/7z2p65F.png
Your move.
(source; http://falanyr.tumblr.com) -
06-09-2015, 02:00 AMabzoluut
Every once in a while these "men should be able to look like women" threads pop up. They always end up like this..
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06-09-2015, 02:35 AMlololinkIt's not about looking like a woman but having the same gear or equivalent, except for the chest piece that would need to be changed to be closer to the chest of a man, that gear could totally work on a man, just see the above picture, that Au Ra doesn't really look feminine.Quote:
Originally Posted by abzoluut
Also I still think a chest piece closer to the MNK AF2 coming with HW would look good for a dancer outfit. -
06-09-2015, 03:39 AMabzoluutThat's not how it works. Just because you say it does not look feminine, does not make it a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by lololink
Threads of this nature indirectly touch upon the "men should be able to look like women" subject, hence how this thread turned out right? There is maybe one lost thread out there of a female character player that wanted to wear male exclusive gear. It's also someone from a NA server who instagates these kinds of threads 9 out of 10 times.
Now, these are facts. -
06-09-2015, 03:46 AMOce
Because all the male exclusive gear immediately gets turned into unisex. There's no need to make a thread like that if there is no male exclusive gear. Almost everything that comes out as male exclusive ends up being made unisex very quickly, with no meddling from the forums (the other set shown with the dancer outfit was originally intended to be male exclusive). I notice that there's no real complaining about the two exclusive Golden Saucer outfits, but there is with the bunny and gambler, becuase one is unisex and the other exclusive. I wonder why that is... Could it be because.... It's yet another example of exclusivity turning into exclusivity for ONLY female characters?
Try to read the thread before you comment when you're clearly not paying attention. -
06-09-2015, 03:46 AMNadirah
Avalt I love that pic.
So this dress... The hell you get it from? -
06-09-2015, 03:59 AMGramulI'm pretty sure those are speculations based in expectation and hearsay.Quote:
Originally Posted by abzoluut
I mean, how would you define femininity? As the quality of being female. But how do you define being female? The only objective definition "is of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes." ie. XY.
And that's pretty much it. Everything else is social contract. And I have yet to hear an argument I find strong enough that supports the idea that one must adhere to those so strictly.
I mean. Why does it upset anyone? What's the true core problem that causes so much duress in some people? -
06-09-2015, 04:01 AMTerriniIt will be released with Heavensward. It hasn't said from WHAT yet... whether it will be new craftable or an event or quest, but it's obviously level 1 glamour gear so it will be one of those three.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadirah
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06-09-2015, 04:05 AMNadirahAh, never saw it. Or what it looks like. O.oQuote:
Originally Posted by Terrini
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06-09-2015, 04:06 AMAeyisNot all men enjoy walking around with a bare chest. Shocking! I know!Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniPrinny
Besides, while I can't speak for gay men; I know that not all women care to see a bare chested men either. Because as you say its seen as sex appeal. For that same reason many men wouldnt care to see it either.
But I'll speak for gay men anyway, and claim that not every gay man would want to see it either, because of sex appeal.
Would you want to see a bare chested woman in ffxiv for example? I mean I don't play the game to see literally half naked characters.
If people want to dress up as such that's up to them, but please dont suggest changes to an item to bring out its sex appeal. -
06-09-2015, 04:09 AMSpiritMuseI agree with this. I think the chest part should lose the cloth and just be a pattern of beads over a bare chest. I would definitely put that on my character. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by MiniPrinny
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06-09-2015, 04:12 AMlololinkhttp://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadirah
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06-09-2015, 04:25 AMNadirahThat... I want that.Quote:
Originally Posted by lololink
And that style is perfectly acceptable on men.... Go look at immortal flames gear... -
06-09-2015, 04:30 AMSpiritMuseExcept the female version of this outfit seems already primarily designed for sex appeal. The bare stomach, small top, the skirt with splits all the way up to the hips, exposing the legs pretty much completely with what looks like leather laces all the way to the top, doesn't leave much other interpretation. Hence the suggestions on how to make this more sexy on men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
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06-09-2015, 05:35 AMKaijinRhadaBest thing I have seen all day (even more uncanny since my intended Au Ra looks remarkably like the one there). *_*Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalt
WTB this outfit for my guys! -
06-09-2015, 10:57 AMAeyisI guess thats up for debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritMuse
The skirt being split does also make it a lot easier to move in. The top is connected so it doesnt actually show any cleavage and what you call small is actually quite sizable..in the right places. I dont see any leather, altho that might be me.
Its quite open for interpretation or cultural bias, you see. -
06-09-2015, 11:12 AMSDaemonhttp://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...00/001/178.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
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06-09-2015, 11:32 AMGreven
Meanwhile in the OP 170 likes. Very Good.
I'm trying to picture how would it look like on a miqo'te, any agile hand feel like drawing it? :P -
06-09-2015, 12:54 PMNozomiKeiThen by that logic all guy tops that aren't expressly armor should be all skin to maximize sexiness? Like I've said, I'm a girl and I dress my character in a way I find attractive. While I dress him very skimpily I never even bothered to buy the necklace/tattoo because I hate how the bare chest looks. The bare chest is not something I find attractive on a guy. It's the lithe frame, regal features, delicate but still masculine curves, the attitude. As for the detached sleeves thing: I'm an Elezen; the detached sleeves are our starter gear underwear top so I didn't see the need to put more in the game. But as I've written that I realize nobody else gets to have that and it's very unique for glamour. I've mostly kept the fabric on the top because it keeps the outfit visually balanced and because I'm just not fond of the bare-chested look(the extra long torso leaves an awkward emptiness).Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniPrinny
Remember the point of this isn't the specifics of this outfit, it's the fact that female characters are getting more gear.
I'll really try to work on that clotheless alternate top design tonight but just like many of you I'm trying to wrap up things for Heavensward. -
06-09-2015, 04:42 PMhallard
As a femroe player, I honestly don't see why any of you guys would want it. Femroes naturally have squared shoulders and more masculine frames, and this sort of effeminate style just looks...strange on them. If it looks strange on a manly female character, then it would be even worse on a manlier male. The skirt is made to emphasize the wider hips of a woman, as many skirts do, which doesn't quite work on a femroe's narrower hips, and would look downright silly on a male. While male clothes can be tailored to suit a woman, the reverse is very difficult to achieve without coming off as a joke. Just look at the top on these sketches, they just look weird on a man. They have nothing they need to cover, no need for support, and no need for such an unnecessary strip of cloth across their chest.
Then you consider the reality of a man in that skirt, their meat and veg audibly slapping about due to their inability to wear underwear without ruining the aesthetic of the open sides...ugh. -
06-09-2015, 05:05 PMOnikimaruWas about to reply to it :P but you're right. It's not worth it. I will however tell you that if they've already done this in the past and will jump over hoops for females, why can't they do it for us?.Quote:
Kathryn
Player
Reason
Actually for get it it's not worth it.
PS i still don't wear dresses XD i just promote equal rights!. -
06-09-2015, 06:00 PMNozomiKei
*le sigh*
I'm pretty sure the girls aren't going commando so why would the guys...? Also, if you looked I toned down the flare of the sashes on the hips so that they'd lay flatter (I don't even like them the way they are on girls.) I started as a femroe and pretty much nothing looked right to me when I wore it. The difference here is that femroes lack a defined waist which makes them look a bit less super feminine (they're pretty rectangular) but the males have broader shoulders than girls so the effect of a smaller waist is created (they're a bit more like a dorito in the torso). When paired with the skirt the slight flare actually matches their natural shape and gives visual weight to the bottom that grounds the more top heavy frame. On femroes the effect is of a rectangle getting wider at the hips so you look a bit chunky.
I've already addressed the general unhappiness with the top by proposing an alternate design and I'm working on another which eliminates the fabric completely (though I feel the fabric there is a good choice design-wise for several reasons).
But really as I keep saying the issue isn't whether or not male characters should wear this, it's that male and female characters are being treated unequally. -
06-09-2015, 07:47 PMkyuvenI've said it before but it doesn't matter why it stirs up duress in people, it only matters that it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramul
This thread is 40 pages of people arguing why or why not men should be able to wear dresses. Specifically, one of the most feminine dresses (by STANDARD Japanese and STANDARD North American, I can't speak for Europe, societal perceptions of masculinity and femininity) the development team has ever come up with.
It doesn't matter whether WE like it or not. It only matters if doing so would cause more problems than not doing so.
The very fact that there is even a point of contention is likely their reason for avoiding the issue in the first place. Which is a VERY Japanese thing to do.
Again, the "Why" is not important. Only the fact that you have to ask why in the first place is important.
"But why is it ok for women to be wearing the masculine outfits?" you ask.
For the opposite reason: They would catch more heat for keeping the outfits locked to men than they would for making them wearable by both genders.
There's also one simple, irrefutable fact: In Japan and America, if a woman walks into work one day wearing pants and the next a skirt, no one will say a word.
If a man walks in wearing a skirt, he attracts attention. It may be as simple as some co-workers laughing about it around the water cooler, or it could be as bad as getting called into the boss's office. And drawing attention to yourself in Japanese culture in such a way is frowned upon.
You may not like it, and to be honest I'm not happy about it either, but this is simply reality. -
06-09-2015, 08:27 PMRadacci
Why is it such a problem that men and women are different? and why do ppl want to blur the line, so badly? or pretend there isn't any line?
There was this campaign some year ago "We like different" I think it was against racism, but can be applied to sexuality, and gender as well i guess.
Ethnicity, culture, color, heritage is important to a lot of ppl; if you take that away from them, or say it doesn't matter, you're basically a racist.
Gender identity is also important to ppl, so if you take that away from ppl, you're basically a sexist.
It's not equality to remove the distinction. It's equality to celebrate both as distinct, and equal.
If you wanna cross the line, go ahead, but don't force others to conform to your view; calling them sexist, if they don't.
You can give a boy, lots options, like pink clothes and barbies - most are still gonna pick cars, action figures and guns, and wrestle and play war; cause it's what THEY WANT.
It's not an illusory stereotype, it's how we work. Of course there's plenty of variations, but there's a norm for a reason, and that is cause men and women ARE different, both physiologically and psychologically.
Kids don't turn gay, cause they got 2 dads, and you're not going to not be masculine, just cause you had feminine stuff to choose from. Options are just options, they don't make a difference; you're who you are - nature and nurture are different things, and nurture isn't gonna change your nature. -
06-09-2015, 08:49 PMYmal
Wh-
This is about being able to get the same amount of gear no matter if they are feminine looking or not in a video game, why is this turning into a 'gay isn't a choice' and 'being different is okay' kind of thing??
I just want my dude to be able to wear nice clothing, it doesn't have anything to do with sexuality or gender or whatnot, just that the devs stop being lazy.
Well many of us have shown a huge interest it in, players with female and male characters, so thank you for your visual description but if you don't like it you don't have to worry about it then no?, like it is for every piece of glamour in this game. I personally liked it and like I showed in a previous post SE has been found of giving men their own bra even if they have nothing that needs to be covered.Quote:
As a femroe player, I honestly don't see why any of you guys would want it.
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06-09-2015, 08:51 PMNoxiferSo.... They would catch more heat for giving women one outfit and men one outfit (as long as they are comparable, not like in the case of zetzer vs bunny).... than they would for giving women two outfits and men one outfit? Let's apply the same equality to other things. Female characters get two loot drops per week from Alexander, men get one. Or vice versa: Men get two rolls and women get one. I'm sure that would go over well =DQuote:
Originally Posted by kyuven
....Yes. Right. Equal. That's what this thread is about, actually. Male characters being given the same amount of options for glamour as female characters. And if female characters get to wear the male counterpart to this outfit, why would it then be fair to lock the female counterpart to female only?Quote:
Originally Posted by Radacci
Of course, most boys are going to choose male-labeled clothing and male-labeled toys and games. Because just like girls get told they're not real girls unless they like pink dresses and makeup (sometimes outright, sometimes merely through looks and genderdirected advertisements), boys get told they're not real boys if they like to play house or cook or wear skirts. Or, gods forbid, like pink.
Does that mean it's right to keep believing toys or clothes only belong to one gender? (Or, in the case of boys' clothes, belong to both genders...) Or should it rather be an individual choice, no more right than wrong? =D
But that's not what this thread's about ^^ -
06-09-2015, 08:55 PMRadaccibecause most gamers are male, and they don't think feminine clothing on their male characters, is nice: not much incentive to add it, since it takes time and money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ymal
Would you like to spend a lot of time and money on a birthday party, and then only 2 ppl come? -
06-09-2015, 09:03 PMkyuvenThat's hyperbole, and a fallacy to boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxifer
Again, we're talking cost-benefit here. If they add the blue outfit for males and females, females will actually wear it (the pants look nice) as evidenced even now by the large number of female character's in the Best Man's attire (especially the shoes, which are quite popular as they go with a lot of other outfits). In contrast, there are not that many male characters choosing to glamour the Flame Elite's Loincloth or the spring skirt. (which I'd like to point out, came out BEFORE this gender-locking thing became an issue) Yes, there are people who do, but they are GROSSLY outnumbered by the number of male characters running around in other outfits up to and including the coeurl bathing suit and nothing else.
Thus, it makes sense to make the male outfit available for both genders, but the cost of making the female one available for both genders is simply not worth it.
Preach on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radacci
It feels like you want to break down and change societal norms over a bellydancer costume.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxifer
Yeah that ain't happening, sorry. Gotta do something a bit more ambitious and play the long game to change societal perceptions. -
06-09-2015, 09:13 PMYmalIdk does making X gear cost them more than making Y gear? Especially when talking about a gear set that is given to the players and not in cash shop? Those thread are getting a lot of support, and as I said SE has released a lot of gear that people happen to find ugly in general and that people never use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radacci
I don't see them lose money with giving male the same amount of gear as they make for female, which is something that a lot of people have been asking for for what a year now at least. Unless you go on and tell me it's because men don't care about their appearance?
I really don't think you can predict what people are going to like just because of their gender or not... wouldn't that be being a bit sexist btw? Expecting taste and opinion from a person just because of their gender?
You guys keep acting as if SE had NEVER released any feminine gear for males in the game, am I going to have to make a list of how many skirts my character can wear or what?