[dev1017] Materia crafting system & Materia: A Matter of Mystery (08/26/2011)

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Zitat von Felis

How about "Gear Intimity"? ^^

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Hmmm...that sounds good too! After all who better than you to know where its weak spots are or being able to slip your fingers thru every single hole of it while feeling that sweat scent coming from it.....Ahem! I guess it was "a bit" too intimate of my gear ^^:::::::

*Gives her Bowman's tunic that "I'm coming, babe!" look*

I vote for "Immersion".

Q: What's your Immersion Level?

A: I am not Immersed at all; I am mildly Immersed; Yay! I'm fully Immersed.

But seriously, I am fine with Spirit Bond as long as it is 2 separate words. I absolutely hate Spiritbond.

Ugh this is gonna suck... the Materia needs to have a protection agent or it's not worth crap with doing. And this isn't the Materia I'm familiar with. :P No way relates to the FFVII materia. Wonder why they chose the name.

Please allow materia to be created out of Rare/EX.

Also, I think attaching materia to rare/ex should be allowable although I understand why SE wouldn't want this to be implemented at this time (to encourage ppl to buy crafted gear)

Lol, those weren't the big issues, Yoshida.

Edit: They should keep spiritbinding because it rhymes with spiritgrinding, which is all it is.

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Zitat von Pyrix

Ugh this is gonna suck... the Materia needs to have a protection agent or it's not worth crap with doing. And this isn't the Materia I'm familiar with. :P No way relates to the FFVII materia. Wonder why they chose the name.

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Because so many people asked the Dev team to keep the name when it was just a project name that might of been changed.

Nooooo.... What's the point of dungeon gear if we cant attach any material to it...ugh. So much more I want to say but ugh seriously...

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Zitat von DGMart

Nooooo.... What's the point of dungeon gear if we cant attach any material to it...ugh. So much more I want to say but ugh seriously...

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Yeah honestly... If regular gear can outclass NM gear with just some materia... What's the point? Why would I hunt down NM gear if I can't do anything to it?

I can somewhat understand not being able to turn it into materia (why would you want to?) but not being allowed to attach Materia to it is just dumb...

It's beyond dumb... Now no one will care to kill NM's or do any dungeons. I swear do devs ever think this stuff through. Now a group of noobs can have the best gear just by paying big gil. Pro RMT anyone? Kind of ironic since this game was so against that s***, now we'll have to deal with it even more.

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Zitat von Colino

Yeah honestly... If regular gear can outclass NM gear with just some materia... What's the point? Why would I hunt down NM gear if I can't do anything to it?

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It's less time consuming and has less risk involved, plus the payoff's still pretty good.

Spirit Bond should be called Junction. Or Spirit Junction or something like that. More references to older Final Fantasy games, the better.

Recollection sounds awesome! Promyvion nostalgia

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Zitat von Riposte

Spirit Bond should be called Junction. Or Spirit Junction or something like that. More references to older Final Fantasy games, the better.

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Petticoat Junction?

Well well, Converting Untradable/unique is a very welcomed tidbit! I was ranting to my wife just last night over this and even said that it shouldnt yeild "special" materia but it should be convertable. I can probly guess why it wasnt included in the original materia release, but doesnt matter, glad to see it on the table. Good call devs!

Spirit bond. Sounds good. Change if you got a good reason such as future plans where the name would be better used. other then that: 1 vote = spirit bond!

I decided this thread was worth warranting my 1st post.

Well, IMO the best gear also creating the best materia would not only bring unbalancing to game (since not everyone can farm raids day and night) but also giving RMTs a tasty meal (they DO can farm raids day and night and materias are sellable).

So i do hope not only raid gear but all endgame gear would generate common materias, even to that gear model (like alpine jacket creating the very same materia of harrier jacket or engraved bhuj creating the same as lominsan bhuj)...and i think before all the cry regarding not being able to attach materia to endgame gear we should wait and see how will be the gear secundary effects after 1.19 since they might be adjusted to match the new attribute system...who knows...maybe they just remove all secundary effects from crafted gear to leave only materia effects...

EDIT: Damn nice sig, Colino!!! @_@ I just feel like doing this every time i see these pony sigs! ><

It give you a choice over how to get equipment. You can either hunt down NMs, do dungeons and get gear with decent stats or you can buy crafted gear and customise it with materia to improve it stats.

Having both the increased stats you usually get from Rare/Ex gear then adding materia on top of that would be more likely to imbalance the game. It would also still provide the same issues they're trying to combat of everyone wearing the same gear. If wearing NM around pimped with materia is better than anything that can be crafted, then most people are going to wear that rather than having the diversity that they're looking to add.

I like the name Spirit Bond. Plus I believe that NM Gear should not be allow to add Materia to it. It will be extremely hard to add enough Materia to HQ Gear to be better than NM Gear. Exp:
Revolutionary's Bliaud INT +5 MIND +5 Piety +5 Magic ACC +4 Parry +4 Elemental Resis +40

Vintage Robe INT 0 MIND +4 Piety 0 Magic ACC 0 Parry 0 Elemental Resis +40 MP +57

Harlequin's Acton INT +7 MIND +4 Piety 0 Magic ACC 0 Parry 0 Elemental Resis +42

For a Mage you need to be able to attach 4 different Materia to be able to compete or be better than the NM gear, plus like Yoshi-P have explain the more Materia you try to put the greater the risk so this will not happen to offen and there will be very few players with greater normal gear than NM Gear. Plus to get a Normal Gear to that level will probably will take a good time and Gil, when you just have to do a good NM run and have the gear with little problems or time spend.

If we're going to make exceptions to the ra/ex gears then they needs to be very careful about balance. Make materia on crafted gear too strong or too easy and who will care about raid/event/nm gear?

If you already don't care about raids, thats great, but some of us look forward to content to clear and work hard to to gear our members. If the ra/ex gear we worked hard on, gets simply passed up by this, it will be a sad thing. Maybe on ra/ex gear only allow 2 pieces of materia max? We'll still be using up gear made by crafters, but it would help keep things more even

The whole point of this is to keep crafters in business and circulate items. So if ra/ex gear does not convert to materia and you can put 2 on it, that still means we'll be circulating crafted gear to materia.

I would suggest placing materia on ra/ex gear through the bazaar where a crafter can do it for you. You select the gear and the materia and it enters your bazaar (a new icon could light up next to your name) then you select the reward (gil or an item, just like repairs)

I think that would keep things healthy and fair

Seems like "memento" should be the terminology used.

Definition: "A reminder of the past; a keepsake."

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Zitat von Volsung

If we're going to make exceptions to the ra/ex gears then they needs to be very careful about balance. Make materia on crafted gear too strong or too easy and who will care about raid/event/nm gear?

If you already don't care about raids, thats great, but some of us look forward to content to clear and work hard to to gear our members. If the ra/ex gear we worked hard on, gets simply passed up by this, it will be a sad thing. Maybe on ra/ex gear only allow 2 pieces of materia max? We'll still be using up gear made by crafters, but it would help keep things more even

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That is my point, I do like the Raids and the Raid Gear better than normal gear. The Stats on the Raid Gear are so much superior to the normal gear that without some type of Gear protection I would guess that you may go as far as 20 pieces of gear before you can attach 4 materia on it. Who wants to go trough the trouble of getting 20 Harlequin Actions and the Materia to make it a little better than the NM Gear. It is going to be alot of work to create a Normal Gear better than NM. Plus like Yoshi-P did mention any HQ + gear will have a greater risk of failing and breaking. I can see in the future how people is going to complain how hard is to get more than 1 Materia on the Gear and how they are tired of their Gear breaking and losing it.

Memento like the defention.

Just throwing my 2 cents into the ring, how about....

'Mnemonic'

The word mnemonic is derived from the Ancient Greek word μνημονικός mnemonikos ("of memory") and is related to Mnemosyne ("remembrance"), the name of the goddess of memory in Greek mythology. Both of these words refer back to μνημα mnema ("remembrance").[2] Mnemonics in antiquity were most often considered in the context of what is today known as the Art of Memory


So a something along the lines of Mnemonic Bond, Mnemonic Spirit, Mnemonic Legacy??

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Zitat von Betelgeuzah

It's less time consuming and has less risk involved, plus the payoff's still pretty good.

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You're wasting your time trying to explain this to them. All they want is to see their phat lootz with materia so crafters become 100% useless and unnecessary in the game.

NM/Dungeon gear: Hassle free, still decent stats. It may even have stats that would be impossible to gain via materia since any slot can only take certain types of materia.

Crafted gear: Easy to make, inferior base stats, generally (so far) no or few additional stats, potential to be better with materia if it doesn't break.

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Zitat von Naoki_Yoshida

・Materia attachment to EX/RARE items will currently not be possible (Depends on content updates)

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Thank You, Yoshida. You pretty much just destroyed any remaining interest I had in this game. Why should I even bother doing content anymore when I can just craft and make Spirit Bond grind parties to get the best equipment in game?

The materia system alone was enough to keep crafters occupied while keeping them "secondary" classes at the same time, as they should be. My idea of endgame isn't sitting in one spot crafting all day or killing trash mobs one after another.

To those who say that this is balanced, I think that's completely ridiculous. If you want the best things a game has to offer, you should have to do ALL of the content that is available, period.

FYI, this is coming from a player that has more crafting ranks than battle ranks and who was actively ranking up crafting classes to prepare for the materia system.

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Zitat von Arcell

You're wasting your time trying to explain this to them. All they want is to see their phat lootz with materia so crafters become 100% useless and unnecessary in the game.

NM/Dungeon gear: Hassle free, still decent stats. It may even have stats that would be impossible to gain via materia since any slot can only take certain types of materia.

Crafted gear: Easy to make, inferior base stats, generally (so far) no or few additional stats, potential to be better with materia if it doesn't break.

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you're kind of off in a couple spots.

First, some dungeon gear IS hard to get for the normal player, and many players will never see it. Ontop of the difficulty there is the fact its not guaranteed. Saying dungeon gear is hassle free is a load.

Secondly as long as materia comes from crafted gear, that will never put crafters out of business.

It all comes down to how they're going to balance it.

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Zitat von MeowyWowie

Thank You, Yoshida. You pretty much just destroyed any remaining interest I had in this game. Why should I even bother doing content anymore when I can just craft and make Spirit Bond grind parties to get the best equipment in game?

The materia system alone was enough to keep crafters occupied while keeping them "secondary" classes at the same time, as they should be. My idea of endgame isn't sitting in one spot crafting all day or killing trash mobs one after another.

To those who say that this is balanced, I think that's completely ridiculous. If you want the best things a game has to offer, you should have to do ALL of the content that is available, period.

FYI, this is coming from a player that has more crafting ranks than battle ranks and who was actively ranking up crafting classes to prepare for the materia system.

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All they have to do is make the NM gear better in general, even better than items with Materia in them. I see in the future though that Rare/ex gear will get the opportunity to be slotted. They did post this: ・Materia attachment to EX/RARE items will currently not be possible (Depends on content updates).

Which with people complaining enough and asking for this I see its chances of happening to be pretty high. But also remember from the start of this game they did envision making the crafters make the most powerful gear by fighting NMs and getting crafting materials from the drops. They might just be saving some of the ideas for later implementation like making it possible to slot rare/ex gear after they tweak the materia system and some more content comes out. They need to see how well the current system is going to work and decide what to do next after some data collecting.

Soul Bind.

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Zitat von Volsung

you're kind of off in a couple spots.

First, some dungeon gear IS hard to get for the normal player, and many players will never see it. Ontop of the difficulty there is the fact its not guaranteed. Saying dungeon gear is hassle free is a load.

Secondly as long as materia comes from crafted gear, that will never put crafters out of business.

It all comes down to how they're going to balance it.

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By hassle free I simply meant as far as materia goes. Yes there is difficulty in obtaining it but once you have it you don't have to mess with it. No worrying about slotting materia and potentially destroying it.

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Zitat von MeowyWowie

Thank You, Yoshida. You pretty much just destroyed any remaining interest I had in this game. Why should I even bother doing content anymore when I can just craft and make Spirit Bond grind parties to get the best equipment in game?

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You're forgetting the significant risk that comes along with multiple materia attachment.

Let's be honest: are you going to risk your r50 +1 weapon, plus three materia you worked really hard to get (or paid a lot to buy), for a low chance of successfully creating some uber-weapon? Some will but most who try will fail. I think rare/ex/dungeon weapons will still be in quite high demand, regardless of the uber-loot some people are running around with.

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Zitat von MeowyWowie

Thank You, Yoshida. You pretty much just destroyed any remaining interest I had in this game. Why should I even bother doing content anymore when I can just craft and make Spirit Bond grind parties to get the best equipment in game?

The materia system alone was enough to keep crafters occupied while keeping them "secondary" classes at the same time, as they should be. My idea of endgame isn't sitting in one spot crafting all day or killing trash mobs one after another.

To those who say that this is balanced, I think that's completely ridiculous. If you want the best things a game has to offer, you should have to do ALL of the content that is available, period.

FYI, this is coming from a player that has more crafting ranks than battle ranks and who was actively ranking up crafting classes to prepare for the materia system.

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maybe they intend to have future raids drop materia/mats instead of premade gear.

Can't wait for Materia!

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・Looking into changing the name of “Spirit Bond.” (This is important, so let’s hear your feedback!)

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I thought Spirit Bond sounded nice, but since materia has to do with memories, why not something related to memory? Like Reminiscence Bond or something like that? :D

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Looking into materia conversion of EX/RARE item next update

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Sounds good. Maybe they could give rare/ex materia too?

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Materia attachment to EX/RARE items will currently not be possible (Depends on content updates)

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Hopefully someday it will be? :)

In order to attach materia to Rare/Ex I believe they only have a few ways to do it:

Options A
If Rare/Ex get materia they will become very powerful compared to Crafting items. The crafting items will have to get buffed to compensate for this to be equivalent to Rare/Ex. I'm afraid if this happens, why bother raiding when you can make the most powerful items from crafting.

Option B
The crafting items aren't buffed. Then dungeon items plus materia become the strongest items and make most of crafting useless (with exception of adding the materia).

Option C
Rare/Ex get maybe 2 materia and Crafting items get all 5. They converge to approximately the same item power. Rare/Ex + 2 materia requires raiding a dungeon and a little bit of luck for 2 materia but crafting plus 5 materia require a lot of luck but no raiding.

What do you think? How can they allow Rare/Ex plus materia in your mind?

Etymology:
"Materia" is a Latin term meaning "matter" or "substance", probably from the phrase "materia magica" (materials for magical rituals). It is also the Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese for the word "subject", fitting as Materia also hosts various kinds that have different effects.

With those in mind, here is my 2 cents.


Materia Junction (I think someone said this before)
Or
Materia Manifest

Reincarnation

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Zitat von Royal

In order to attach materia to Rare/Ex I believe they only have a few ways to do it:

Options A
If Rare/Ex get materia they will become very powerful compared to Crafting items. The crafting items will have to get buffed to compensate for this to be equivalent to Rare/Ex. I'm afraid if this happens, why bother raiding when you can make the most powerful items from crafting.

Option B
The crafting items aren't buffed. Then dungeon items plus materia become the strongest items and make most of crafting useless (with exception of adding the materia).

Option C
Rare/Ex get maybe 2 materia and Crafting items get all 5. They converge to approximately the same item power. Rare/Ex + 2 materia requires raiding a dungeon and a little bit of luck for 2 materia but crafting plus 5 materia require a lot of luck but no raiding.

What do you think? How can they allow Rare/Ex plus materia in your mind?

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Look, those who work hard for their gear should be rewarded accordingly. That's the point of having content. People saying that well everyone will be wearing the same gear is bulls*ht. First, not everyone is good enough to do dungeons, and I believe there has to be effort if you want the best gear. Right now what they stated is: grind pt, craft, gather and you will have the best gear... Which is beyond ridiculous. I might as well throw all my rare/exc away.(which i'm not, but I could)

Not everyone is equal and they shouldn't make it as such. Those with more skill should have the best. Just like any other mmo out there. That is not a hard concept. It has nothing to do with being a casual or hardcore, because let's be honest I've seen some hardcore noobs in my day and I consider myself a casual player.

There is absolutely no skill in grinding mobs, gathering items, crafting. Sorry... If you have all 50's and you have the right abilities, you're set. Next is just a matter of luck. Sorry Yoshi but this is the first time that I definitely do not agree with your direction and I believe it will ruin the game for the more skilled players that like earning their gear through content and not sitting around Uldah spamming standard or bold on the controller/keyboard.

Just had a thought, and forgive me if this has already been addressed, but what if Rare/Ex gear could be turned into materia, and it always resulted in the same materia (example: Ascetic's Gear always turning into +INT materia) ? This way, if people wanted specific materia for a certain piece of gear they could raid a dugeon or fight the NM that drops it. That way, people that don't care as much about stat maxing can depend on the materia they acquire through crafted gear, and those that do care have a specific target they can depend on to get the materia that they want.

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Zitat von DGMart

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Look, those who work hard for their gear should be rewarded accordingly. That's the point of having content. People saying that well everyone will be wearing the same gear is bulls*ht. First, not everyone is good enough to put forth the effort to actually attach 5 materia to a piece of gear, and I believe there has to be effort if you want the best gear. Right now what they stated is: run dungeon, bypass content, open chests and you will have the best gear... Which is beyond ridiculous. I might as well throw all my crafted gear away.(which I'm not, but I could)

Not everyone is equal and they shouldn't make it as such. Those with more skill should have the best. Just like any other mmo out there. That is not a hard concept. It has nothing to do with being a casual or hardcore, because let's be honest I've seen some hardcore noobs in my day and I consider myself a casual player.

There is absolutely no skill in grinding dungeons, opening chests, and hoping for a rare drop. Sorry... If you have all 50's and you have the right abilities, you're set. Next is just a matter of luck. Yoshi this isn't the first time that I definitely do agree with your direction and I believe it will enhance the game for the more skilled players that like earning their gear through content and not sitting around in some dungeon auto-attacking and spamming weaponskills on the controller/keyboard.

Look! It works both ways!

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You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. I just couldn't resist. Sorry.

I agree with the first two sentences of your original post.

"Look, those who work hard for their gear should be rewarded accordingly. That's the point of having content."

Though, running dungeons and attaching materia aren’t all that different in my opinion.

Repeated dungeon runs looking for a particular drop from a boss or chest = grind
Crafting a bunch of gear, making materia, attaching it for success or fail = grind

Getting the super-rare drop loot from said boss/chest = luck
Successfully attaching 2-5 materia to a single item = luck

In both cases, having all 50s (in corresponding classes) with the right set of abilities greatly reduces the difficulty of completing objectives towards the goal, but has no effect on the final outcome which is ultimately luck based.

Personally, I would consider the crafting route to be the harder of the two. The chance for substantial loss is very real when attempting multi-materia attachments. If it is anything like the upgrade systems used in other games, where a failure results in destruction of the item, the investment required to successfully create a 4-5 materia item with be massive. Not only in terms of time but also resources and the skill required to successfully gather, manage, and utilize those resources.

In the future we will probably see dungeons dropping materials for crafted items. Grinding in a dungeon will still raise Spirit Bond towards materia creation. If the devs decide to allow Rare/Ex gear to be materialized (with no bonus to outcome) as is being considered, there will be a very good reason to run dungeon content repeatedly.

The whole system is still unreleased, and seems like it will have a lot of potential for substantial depth and customization. I doubt it will make anything existing completely obsolete. More options is better than less options. Customized crafted gear for elemental/abnormal status resistance seems like a decent use for the system and would help with the dungeon crawling end of things.

I'll be taking a wait and see approach myself.

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Zitat von DGMart

Look, those who work hard for their gear should be rewarded accordingly. That's the point of having content. People saying that well everyone will be wearing the same gear is bulls*ht. First, not everyone is good enough to do dungeons, and I believe there has to be effort if you want the best gear. Right now what they stated is: grind pt, craft, gather and you will have the best gear... Which is beyond ridiculous. I might as well throw all my rare/exc away.(which i'm not, but I could)

Not everyone is equal and they shouldn't make it as such. Those with more skill should have the best. Just like any other mmo out there. That is not a hard concept. It has nothing to do with being a casual or hardcore, because let's be honest I've seen some hardcore noobs in my day and I consider myself a casual player.

There is absolutely no skill in grinding mobs, gathering items, crafting. Sorry... If you have all 50's and you have the right abilities, you're set. Next is just a matter of luck. Sorry Yoshi but this is the first time that I definitely do not agree with your direction and I believe it will ruin the game for the more skilled players that like earning their gear through content and not sitting around Uldah spamming standard or bold on the controller/keyboard.

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I wasn't trying to defend any of those options and I apologize if I did. I just can't fathom how NM drops are going to work in all of this that's all. Sorry if my intentions weren't clear. Whether I agree or disagree, I was just showing how socketing materia to NM gear COULD work, that's all.

Yoshida made a post this morning in regards to balancing out the number of materia slots across different class/jobs, as well as future PvP. Take a gander.

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Zitat von Naoki_Yoshida

Hi, this is Yoshida, the producer/director.

I plan on responding little by little, but let me start with this topic which I am a big fan of…^^;

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This would mean that gladiators, conjurers, and thaumaturges will be able to add on an additional Materia. Unless it is "Materia that can only be equipped on shields and only affects shields," a gap will emerge. Yoshida has previously stated that he would like to incorporate PvP, and I would like PvP in a coliseum or similar venue. However, if this happens, wouldn’t the gap caused by additional Materia be too wide to overcome? Wouldn’t this upset the balance?

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Let me start off by mentioning that there have been differences in locations for enchant systems in other MMOs that I used to play religiously. For example, classes with shields will be able to equip a one-handed weapon and shield, so they will have an extra location to equip Materia. However, for two-handed weapons, there will be more types of Materia with higher status boosts available for use, so we are working on balancing the total enhancement, rather than strictly the number of enhancements.

The balance between classes and jobs is being calculated with this in mind, so there will not be any significant gaps. (As you guessed, Materia for shields will be balanced so that they only benefit shield classes/jobs.)

The armory system is difficult to adjust, but we plan on adjusting one-handed weapons, two-handed weapons, and dual wielding swords once the battle system is revamped. However, differences between the weapons are inevitable, so we plan on working towards balancing classes/jobs with that in mind.

As such, from the beginning of Materia implementation, we plan on being careful about the balance between classes when adjusting effects and their limits.

In PvP, fighting with complete equality would be very boring. Recently, games are designed so that individuality exists in addition to player skills. Even in FPSs, skills grow based on the opponents kill count. In MMORPGs where multiple classes and jobs exist, each class/job has different abilities, attacking ranges, HP, and durability ratings based on these differences. Therefore players play with pride, developing their strategies and distributing skill points based on their jobs/classes. Balancing PvP is very difficult, but this is something that I enjoy, so I will do my best to maintain balance while implementing Materia. :o

…wow, that was a major digression.

As a PvPer myself, it makes me very happy that you guys have an interest in PvP
However, the grass is always greener on the other side. :) Competitions of whose grass is greener may just be another aspect in the joys of PvPing. Just kidding… :p

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Pretty sure most people's eyes will go straight to dual wield.

hmm... looks like PVP is just 1 vs 1 and party vs party, i want to see large scale PVP to conquest enemy LS castles with my LS! >.<
sounds fun =P