Dark Knight

Am I salty about the Job being a tank? Yes
Am I annoyed that it doesn't fit past games versions of Dark Knight? Yes
Will I still play it? Begrudgingly Yes

I have been wanting Dark Knight since 1.0's intro trailer had Derp-Lander with a Great Sword. I RP'd having one, researched and used old Dark Knight lore from previous games. Dark Knight has always been my go to class for high damage output. I feel a bit cheated by this but accept that they have to add tanks to the game. I just feel there are several better options to pick from than Dark Knight.

Arc Knight
Holy Knight
Sentinel
Viking
Rune Knight / Rune Fencer
Templar

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

I'ma stop you right there, spamming flash is indeed OP at lower levels. Up until... 40-ish you can just spam flash and then spend all your GCD combo'n Riot Blade to get your MP back just fine. The only thing this doesn't really apply to is bosses.

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Originally Posted by WellGramarye

Fixed that for you. Unless your group massively out gears you, and I mean full I40 ahead of you, flash is still pretty king.

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Hmm, well I suppose then you can flash spam? I don't personally suggest it though, as I can tank and maintain hate just fine without having to burn my MP so quickly.

I have seen tanks that just use flash and easily have aggro ripped from them by White Mages and Bards.. so I dunno. I mean, they obviously weren't using their Riot Blade combo correctly and were purely relying on flash.

You say that this works, but I have seen otherwise on many occasions. So I am going to trust my experiences because it has proven to be correct.

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Originally Posted by madolyn

so is the general idea that a lot of people who wanted to play DRK are now not going to play DRK because they don't want to tank?

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I think it's more that they would have preferred Dark Knight to stick to its roots rather then deviating quite so horrendously. Going from an outright DPS to a tank is a pretty big leap, especially for a job which traditionally sacrifices HP to fight.

It means either (a) Dark Knight is going to be missing most of its iconic nature or (b) it's going to be the most annoying tank for healers ever devised.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

I think it's more that they would have preferred Dark Knight to stick to its roots rather then deviating quite so horrendously. Going from an outright DPS to a tank is a pretty big leap, especially for a job which traditionally sacrifices HP to fight.

It means either (a) Dark Knight is going to be missing most of its iconic nature or (b) it's going to be the most annoying tank for healers ever devised.

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Pretty much this is spot on for my opinion.

It's as if you people haven't played Dark Knight. Takes HP to attack, takes HP back from enemies. Who's to say it can't do that?

If you ignore FFXI, the only game in the numbered series that pulled a lot of wild things, then there are only two tanks- Knight (Paladin), Viking

So you want 2 tanks? Okay.

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Originally Posted by Ecks007

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I run nearly every dungeon with a geared BLM (who has a wonderful flare/double flare/triple flare rotation,) and sometimes a geared WHM and not so geared BRD (though who does impeccable song rotations [Ballad between pulls, Requiem during fights] due to being in the same room as me.) At any level you have enough MP to Flash about 7-8 times (depending on mp refresh tic) from full MP. On any group of 3 or more mobs during pull -> Shield Toss High priority mob -> FoF -> Flash -> Scorn -> Flash x 6 -> Rotate Riot Blade and Flash some more. You will lose hate if a couple of things are happening:

1.) People attack/agro the mob before you and pull it out of your Flash/Scorn range (this happens a lot with Bards who try to dps while you pull or mages who use Regen during pulls. In this case, there is nothing you can do except try to regain hate with provoke and other abilities.

2.) Your party massively out gears you. Again this is talking I40 + difference. Flash emnity is based on your weapon base damage. If their damage > your damage by a large margin then it will be hard to keep hate period. In this case, the solution is to farm better gear.

3.) The fight is taking forever. Yes eventually you WILL lose hate over a period of like 4-5 minutes, but if the fight is taking this long then your party is massively under geared for the content. Even same geared as drop parties should be able to burn through a normal pull in decent enough time (Eg: i80 party in a dungeon that drops i80 gear.) IF the fight takes forever then the healer has to heal more, thus creeping up on the emnity list. There are a few things going wrong here if this is happening. The healer isn't helping to dps, the dps have bad gear or rotations, the tank isn't using proper cooldown rotations. This is mostly a failure of the entire party.

It's apparently an evade-tank? I guess if it does have abilities that sacrifice it's own HP, evasion is the only kind of tanking it could afford to do...

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

Dark Knight will probably have an offensive stance and deal damage comparable to Warrior, if not more damage. Each class has it's own strengths, perhaps DRK will excel at being on Main Tank for shorter periods of time so the heavier tanks can tank longer, so the DRK can dps more.

We don't know.

But I am REALLY glad it's a tank. DRK being a tank mean less people will confidently play it, and since I've got WAR and PLD, I'm so ready to play my favorite job.

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You know that will be very interesting to see if they started to design Stand Alone Jobs with the ability to fit into 2 Job Roles. Though Dark Knight is now a Tank only role, I do hope future stand alone Jobs will have the ability to take on 2 Job Roles for group content.

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Originally Posted by Jacost

It's apparently an evade-tank? I guess if it does have abilities that sacrifice it's own HP, evasion is the only kind of tanking it could afford to do...

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That and HP Drain abilities, Keep in mind it is possible they also kept the HP Drain aspect of Dark Knight so it can be a Evading/HP Drain Tank. This would allow Dark Knight to steal HP from enemies to keep itself alive which can be a very vital mechanic for Dark Knight as a Tank.

There is a reason I want this as a dps , and that is just because dps jobs are easier and more accessible in my opinion and I really wanna play drk

It's really annoying when Ffxi vets gets really obnoxious and salty when they dont get things their way.

Wait, I get to be an unstoppable juggernaut of death and soul eating glory? I see nothing wrong with this.

I can stop being this pansy paladin touchy feely tank and still use a sword, epic win.

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Originally Posted by Klive

I can stop being this pansy paladin touchy feely tank and still use a sword, epic win.

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This is exactly what I mean. Paladin 3.0
Goodbye paladins

I saw a lot of people wanting Samurai as a counter-based tank. Got to thinking, what if they keep in the using your own HP as a oh shit button? Let's say similar to Holmgang (minus the dreaded self bind), but you get a short pacification to take as much damage as possible, without chance of death. Once the ability ends, the Dark Knight unleashes all that built up damage on the enemy? The ability to use your own HP to attack could also link into draining it back, possibly building up a pool for defense or increased healing effects?

Would could be seeing a type of tank that doesn't so much rely on self-healing, and more absolute destruction. Using the darkness inside of themselves, it doesn't matter what happens to themselves, so long as their enemies die.

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Originally Posted by MidlaneGod

It's really annoying when Ffxi vets gets really obnoxious and salty when they dont get things their way.

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I'm a FFXI Vet, who was a Dark Knight main for 5 years before I quit XI.

Originally I was all against Drk being a tank (I'm talking theoretical arguments from a year ago) because I was really against it possibly coming from Gladiator, using sword and shield and using Gladiator abilities which didn't fit the Dark Knight theme.

And I still would be against it, if that was the case.

However, even though it will be a tanking class, everything I have seen about Dark Knight so far is pretty spot on for the job. Honestly I cannot wait to play a Dark Knight again. So, I'll be a tank. No big deal. I think they managed to turn Dark Knight into a tank and still retain all the stuff I love about it. The look, the badass weapons, the dark magic. I'm good.

I'm not sure how I feel about drk tank, but I do know that history should not be used as the deciding factor of what roles jobs here should play. I would not be surprised if DRK tanked based off damage, and not enmity. This is not a problem because their tank role is enforced unless pre-formed group. I'm just saying, DRK probably won't be faced with an army of tank abilities.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

Dark Knight has just about always been a tank. In reference to FFXI, all melees had some sort of tank abilities, though obviously some classes were better at it than others. There was plenty of content that DRK could tank. The problem with FFXI DRK tanking was newbies using Last Resort and Soul Eater. Though not the ideal tank, it worked. Besides, FFXI was FULL of hybrids anyway and so most classes could fill multiple roles.

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Name me any content outside of leveling up jobs where DRK could play as the tank for the group, over warriors, monks, paladins, ninjas, and heck even samuria. Not even with /nin or /sam did they come close. I tanked as DRK very rarely in desperate times, and when I did it was a nightmare on healer MP regardless of not using LR or SE and incredibly slow exp.

But sure, I'll bite and ask just what you think DRK could tank in FFXI outside of mere exp groups, unless you speak of KC zergs in which case every DRK was forced to tank more or less but usually didn't matter because stuff dropped dead before their SE/BW combo wore off.

The only real time DRK could tank a significant amount of things in FFXI was after the implementation of Dread Spikes, which helped absorb HP from enemies that were hitting them (which I think seems like a winner for a FFXIV skill for tanking).

I forget if it got nerfed or not, but that was something, I guess.

The only game DRK wasn't a tank was in FFXI because that was the only game that had that kind of division. All melee characters with good HP and armor could take hits in any FF game quite well.

Introduction of Death Knights didn't kill the paladin in WoW and it will not kill the paladin here. At launch of the expansion there will be an explosion of Dark Knights, but after a time the number will even out again. People will tank what fits their tastes in the end.

Seems to me that SE just needs to implement some kinda of system that allows jobs to do different roles; so a Dark Knight could be a dps or Tank. Seems like a win win to me.

I'm ok with a DRK tank. DRK does make more historical sense as a DPS, but there's only so many available jobs that are both popular and could fit the mold as a tank (wearing heavy armor), so I always though this was a possibility. I'm actually happier that it is a tank, because I imagine that I'll have more opportunity to play DRK consistently due to the higher demand for tanks in the game.

The one thing I'm sort of confused about is DRK as an parry/evasion tank. If there was one tank class that would scream, "GO AHEAD AND HIT ME IN THE FACE, I'LL MAKE YOU PAY FOR IT", it would be the self sacrificing DRK. Parry I get, but DRK as a nimble evasion tank seems ... odd.

DRK might function similar to Guardian Druid on WoW. Massive Health pool, Very High Dodge, but has a way to convert a resource into a scalable self heal. That latter part is what WAR lacked during the launch of 2.0. They may implement a damage taken pool for DRK that accumulates during the fight.

If anything it looks like a heavier, more "do your best" and take hits in the face, passive mitigation tank (or at most evasive mitigation through spells/seals) than anything physically nimble... Its heavy armor and likely enlarged health pool seems to make it ideal as a dual-option heavy dps / tank that, when in the dps role, can easily swap into off-tanking and can use increased vitality for larger nukes (though at cost of consistent dps compared to going full strength)... I don't exactly have faith in the team's ability to make something interesting of a self-sacrificial mechanic in a tank either, though I think it's possible in other hands. Of course, just as much as none of this is perfectly set in stone yet, I really doubt we have a voice in the matter.

:: just a side-note, from what little we have here, the impression I get is that of a 2h Frost tank, back when that was a thing. Huge armor, decent enough health, acclimating and sapping defense, good parry and magic defense, and a bit of burst mitigation/absorption through spells.

I'm an XI vet, stopped playing for a while and fairly recently started again. Dark Knight is my #2 job behind Red Mage. I don't care if it's going to fill the tank slot, I'm going to play Dark Knight here anyway. Could be interesting.

I'm actually very happy with DRK being a tank. And I hope they will make it interesting enough. I'm not sure I will play one, cause my main is healer anyway, and for secondary tanking I like the Paladin, but I will try one for sure, after I level to 60 my main job :)

ppl should srsly stop going "Hey Dark Knight is a tank" and start going "Hey that tank is a Dark Knight"

if they implement the dark knight and it feels/plays like one then thats enough.. u shouldnt play a job for its role anyway, u should play it cuse of the job itself

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

Someone let the angry kid out...

It's a game man, everyone have their own opinion and can state it, but your reaction is really childish, chill out and get a life.

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he is mad....only 3 posts...but full of rageeeeeeeee on capslock of course

Drk are tanks for 1 reason :

WE NEED MORE TANKS , and DRK are perfect for that because 2h sword (wannabe cloud) , darkness magic....lawl dark magic im badass roaarrr

i was scared of the amount of NIN....but im sure DRK Are going to be EVERYWHERE....feel sorry for REAL tanks....

Incase i missed it, is drk a cross between gladiator and dragoon, or gladiator and black mage?

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Originally Posted by rina_inverse

also curious on the no base class
wonder if SE will tear down the whole class-job concept

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How can they? The whole class system is too ingrained into the lore. So why break with what you have previously establish. Jobs are a specialization of classes. Introduce a class or split it off of another, no exception.

What bothers me the most, is not the fact it's a Tank but their is no base class. I get it Yoshi P, you didn't like the classes, and I know based on what you were given (FFXIV 1.0), didn't give you much room to change it, but you already established a lore, plus you have a lot of pre-existing clases that could diverge into another job just like you have established with Arcanist. Why are we changing that. I just don't get it.

Well, I know of a way they could fix it, but it would be ripping off another very popular game. Give us talent trees. There. I said it. Give WAR the chance to Tank OR specialize in DD. PLD gets to tank, heal or dps, SCH gets to heal or DPS, it would give the classes a lot more flexibility PLUS it would cut down on the complaints that the classes are pigeon holed into set roles. Yes, they are iconic, and that works fine in a single player RPG, but with a MMO, you need flexability. We have 2 tanks, 2 heals, and about to have 6 DPS. I would rather have more options than additional classes at this point in the game, just my opinion...

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Originally Posted by Airget

lol hate to be that guy who makes a snarky comment but, why couldn't NIN be a tank again? Making DRK a tank is just weird, I guess the gun class they reveal is going to end up being a healer lol.

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Ninja Should of been Cross Class like smn / SCH , Thf as the Dps , and Nin as the Tank Class i'm sorry i really believe they didn't think this 1 through or just choose to personal preference instead of just trying to do vote system on what best for the game Really don't want Realm Reborn to be Like 1.0 where it died and they had to scrap everything =/ just 1 huge revamp change Nin to tank and DRK to Dps would fix everything

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Originally Posted by Airget

lol hate to be that guy who makes a snarky comment but, why couldn't NIN be a tank again?

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I don't want to be that guy, but are you lacking brain cells? In a single game out of 30+ has Ninja be able even be close to a tank. If you didn't play FFXI, like many people didn't, you'd think anyone who says Ninja should be a tank has IQ less than a chimpanzee's.

I played FFXI, but i think my DRK was like.. level 30.. maybe 33, and that was when cap was at 75. But ive played a lot of other mmos between now and then, and ive grown to really love 2 handed sword dps ect, and was really waiting for this class. My hearts a little broken that its not a dps class, throughout DRK history in any FF its always sacrificed HP to go ham, its never been a protector or a martyr of any sorts, and i really see that being a tank role, the protector... i hope some of you guys can read this and agree with me it really shouldnt be a tank role, buuuut its just my little ol opinion.

Heres a link to what someone wrote on a wiki, and did a pretty good job describing DRK in a nutshell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_F...bs#Dark_Knight

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Originally Posted by Argarah

What bothers me the most, is not the fact it's a Tank but their is no base class. I get it Yoshi P, you didn't like the classes, and I know based on what you were given (FFXIV 1.0), didn't give you much room to change it, but you already established a lore, plus you have a lot of pre-existing clases that could diverge into another job just like you have established with Arcanist. Why are we changing that. I just don't get it.

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Well the dark knight is new, it doesn't need a class system that doesn't make the gameplay any more fun. Also it would be quite logical story-wise if the jobs became more efficient battle styles than the classes and with more research being done on them, the guilds were to become job guilds, like instead of a lancer guild, it would be a dragoon guild!

I would be a very happy panda if something like that were to happen, I mean do you like the classes? Cuz I sure don't... BESIDES ARCANIST, gotta love carbuncle, otherwise no.

I was looking forward to playing a SAM tank but may just go DRK if SAM is a DPS. I'm glad it's a tank, it seems cool, might get more people to tank also. I just hope all the tank jobs have their own identity. Like WAR has self-heals. If they just give DRK an absorb that basically works like Bloodbath or a spell that does the same thing as Thrill of Battle, that'll be pretty unexciting.

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Originally Posted by Nielk

Ninja Should of been Cross Class like smn / SCH , Thf as the Dps , and Nin as the Tank Class i'm sorry i really believe they didn't think this 1 through or just choose to personal preference instead of just trying to do vote system on what best for the game Really don't want Realm Reborn to be Like 1.0 where it died and they had to scrap everything =/ just 1 huge revamp change Nin to tank and DRK to Dps would fix everything

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seriously... ninja...tank? *sighs* since when a spy, assassin and sneaky can fit in the shoes of a tank... and i prefer not begin with why the drk must'nt be a dps... if you don't understand this i can't help you.

"uh ffxiv is it's own game , they can make summoners whatever they want they don't have to follow what previous games did, who cares that it's a dot class now"
"DARK KNIGHT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A DPS WHY CHANGE THIS OMG"
lol

Drk doesn't need a guild if it does not have a class.. so it's avoiding having to insert lore where there wasn't before and create disconformity within the storyline... I bet you find some stoic drk out in a remote area who teaches you how to delve the depths of your hate or some such... very ffxi Zeid-like

Everyone needs to calm down SE did not say DRK would be just like it was in FFXI, it is very much viable as a tank option, and that job will not see the world we currently live and play in. The 3.0 team will not add on to the world currently as it exists but overwrite it entirely with a whole new job system and set of quests for those jobs.
The original classes will be reworked/renamed into jobs, Rogue and ninja will split to follow their individual destinies which was originally intended. For speculation sake lets rename/rework the classes; Conjurer >> Redmage/Fencer, Pugilist >> Boxer/Beastmaster(this makes sense if you've done the pugilist story line), Marauder >> Samurai, Arcanist >> Blue mage , Thaumaturge >> Geomancer, Archer >> Gunner/Ranger, Gladiator >> Dark Knight. Pure speculation but consider the classes removed as prerequisites and made into jobs available at level 1, where do they go? Also I still hope as many others do as well that SE will give us Dancer.

If I can out-DPS 90% of the DPS I've met as a non-tanking warrior then I can do the same as a DRK. You FFXI rose-tinted goggles wearers are getting a bit too salty for my sodium intake.