Frontlines: There should not be ANY rewards for 2nd or 3rd place

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Woah i must be a strange person coming from wow and thinking that pvp even in bgs should be about of outplaying enemy by your skill not by literally first spawned rng towers (i had like 500 points lead win against 2 teams in that 700 points map (yes i really dont care about naming of these obnoxious battlegrounds)).

Rng towers can be fine, but as i said, 1v1v1 makes it worse.

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Rushing to capture the first-spawned towers is frequently a mistake. The team with favorable early spawns has less opportunity to get BH and frequently becomes targeted by the other two. (This is less true on Shatter, but who cares about Shatter.)

Not sure where I suggested PvP should be anything other than attempting to outplay the enemy. The issue is predictable objective spawns makes the game dull. Hence RNG is critical to the PvP experience.

Unfortunately, the largest random fact remains which team you get assigned to, but again that evens out over time.

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Originally Posted by IceEyes

And so, if in ranked CC games devs separated PvP players from the rest, but in casual FL matches, i really no idea how to do that.

So OP is thinking in the right direction. He wants to improve the quality of matches, not take away awards, but proposed most simple and rude way.

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Thanks! I think after starting this thread, I realised that there definitely are 2 types of player, and I didn't realise how much of a "hardcore pvp player" i am. Funny how that happens.
I think casual gamers are super valuable, and if casuals get completely overlooked - the "hardcore" community will quickly die, because there would be more hardcore players quitting the game thatn new players getting sucked in.

I still think balancing reward structure slightly to encourage better games and not nerf the rewards completely might be good enough to keep the casuals interested enough, and games to be more OK for hardcore group.

[edit]
AND custom FL games for those discord qsyncs, that wouldn't have any rewards/achievements at all. Those are usually for hardcore pvp players who probably have all the rewards anyway and just want to have fun.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

More like current frontlines is awful game mode

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Just remove frontlines and spread devs workload (which is nearly zero just by looking at what they are doing) elsewhere.

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Sir, this is Wendy's :D - it's a thread about how to make frontlines a better game mode by changing reward structure.
I thought to counter your points, but as an OP, i don't want to derail the conversation about general frontline mechanics - there are other threads that discuss it.
[edit] However I see where you are coming from and I genuinely believe that changing reward structure to encourage play to win behaviour would alleviate your criticisms of the mode in all instances aside from netcode. That it wont' change. [/edit]

I won't be responding to any attempts at personal attacks in a previous message, because I see them as an attempt to derail the conversation, and are frankly beside the point.
I am not some evil mastermind that is ruling the EU frontlines with premades - chill your beans :D. If you play on Light/Chaos regularly, we might have played together. I queue frontlines with friends sometimes, but 80-90% of my 2.5k games are solo.

If you don't like frontlines - I encourage you not to queue for it. As i said - it's my favourite game mode.
There are plenty of other ways to get your exp, tomes etc. This game provides with ample opportunities.

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Originally Posted by TofuLove

If you don't like frontlines - I encourage you not to queue for it. As i said - it's my favourite game mode.
There are plenty of other ways to get your exp, tomes etc. This game provides with ample opportunities.

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This message should pop up whenever someone queues for FL. Similarly, if you queue into alliance roulette, maybe the warning "There is a possibility you are about to enter a Crystal Tower raid. Please don't whine if this occurs."

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

This message should pop up whenever someone queues for FL. Similarly, if you queue into alliance roulette, maybe the warning "There is a possibility you are about to enter a Crystal Tower raid. Please don't whine if this occurs."

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Remove frontline roulette and xp gained from just playing it. Don't like my ideas? Go play other games with better pvp. As i said before and repeat again, op is just a premade baiter. If someone is not a baiter in this topic but just too dense, again, please try to play other pvp games where skill matters, lose matches there and rethink if someone should get nothing for 2/3 place.

I don't think i need to give you examples from the same wow classic (especially 2019) and some clownfiesta that was in sod. You all just have never encountered people from private server era that went to classic and will just stomp anything anywhere 24/7.

Want people be more interested in bgs? Make it less rng/which premade horde is better dependant.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Remove frontline roulette and xp gained from just playing it. Don't like my ideas? Go play other games with better pvp. As i said before and repeat again, op is just a premade baiter. If someone is not a baiter in this topic but just too dense, again, please try to play other pvp games where skill matters, lose matches there and rethink if someone should get nothing for 2/3 place.

I don't think i need to give you examples from the same wow classic (especially 2019) and some clownfiesta that was in sod. You all just have never encountered people from private server era that went to classic and will just stomp anything anywhere 24/7.

Want people be more interested in bgs? Make it less rng/which premade horde is better dependant.

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That's a very... self-assured demand. The goal here is airing ideas that might make FL better.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

1) 1v1v1 is unfair
2) randomness of pve towers spawn is unfair (magnified by 1, i saw a bunch of games ended from literally start based on spawns)
3) battle high is unfair (magnified by 1)
4) people figured out matchmaking is trash, so you can easy meet premades consisting of multiple groups in same team = fair for them (magnified by 1) and 3) )
5) overall class balance is bad, doesn't help that ff14 doesn't have basic things wow CLASSIC has and i am not covering lame +dmg -dmg for frontlines (magnified by 4), meta stacking)
6) this should be in 5), ff14 netcode is trash

Just remove frontlines and spread devs workload (which is nearly zero just by looking at what they are doing) elsewhere.

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1.) People don't have time for blowout games. Pushing for 1v1 severely amplifies those that want to surrender from a bad start.
2.) You can't fully blame RNG if folks are not willing to fight/defend.
3.) You can thank those that complained about losing battle high entirely upon death a long time ago.
4.) Team balanced is done solely by group size, not stats. That's why hunting premades are still dominant all round.
5.) Things will probably go smoothly if they took a look at healing in general, Recuperate included.
6.) No disagreeing with you there.

I am starting to get slightly annoyed with people calling for the removal of pvp. That is main content for me. I refuse to go back to doing dailies, not when I have to play frontlines in a PvE dungeon because the tank decided to overpull and everyone wipes because the healer couldn't keep up.

I have never liked PvP and used to AFK just for the glam and exp. I got bored of AFKing and started actually putting abilities in my crossbarr and using them. I still don't find it particularly fun but it's the only place where jobs feel different and it isn't any worse than running any other boring roulette. But I definitely wouldn't touch it if I didn't get any reward out of it most of the times. Glam is cool but not that cool.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

This message should pop up whenever someone queues for FL. Similarly, if you queue into alliance roulette, maybe the warning "There is a possibility you are about to enter a Crystal Tower raid. Please don't whine if this occurs."

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Should also warn you you’re about to enter a more raid to.

In the last few days I had some trash tier games.
Yesterday night was particularly bad. I think Seal Rock is actually somehow worse than Shatter sometimes for casual performance. Shatter is bad because of the ice "distraction", but on seal rock because the map is so big, people get super lazy, and some more casual players think it's okay to "guard" nodes and not engage in any pvp (let them fight meme). Yesterday I queue'd in, and in the first encounter I realised we are only like 5 people pushing against 24. I was playing BLM and whilst i can go into ice phase, it's a class that's really not super designed for holding the frontline. Our team just refuses to go in and when I decide to maybe throw some objectives down into alliance chat. Get told to shut up almost immediately and stop crying and that this mode doesn't matter. This wasn't just 1 person, but more like 10 people. Ok. I am experienced enough in blacklisting people, not much offends me :D

After we obviously lost the game coming in at deep third, I find myself on the top for damage with many deaths. I scroll down the scoreboard to see people barely doing 100k damage and dying. That checks out. These people shouldn't be getting a free pass at the expense of wasted time.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I have never liked PvP and used to AFK just for the glam and exp. I got bored of AFKing and started actually putting abilities in my crossbarr and using them. I still don't find it particularly fun but it's the only place where jobs feel different and it isn't any worse than running any other boring roulette. But I definitely wouldn't touch it if I didn't get any reward out of it most of the times. Glam is cool but not that cool.

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I read your comment whenever you posted it and it kinda stumped me. If you don't mind, could you answer some questions so i can get an understanding:
What modes/mini games do you enjoy?
Does exp matter that much because you can literally get exp for stuff you probably enjoy more?
As for glam are you talking about series rewards?
Would you find it to be more fun if you were more experienced at it, kinda like when you know the rules of the game - it can be more interesting to play it?