Honest question for people dissatisfied with WHM:

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Originally Posted by Chopstix

Im not sure y piety is still a stat that exists. Nobody other than WHM needs it. And those 3 healers r designed around not ever needing it. I think WHM didnt need it in SHB with the good old thin air right? So just remove piety already, have lilies restore some % mana or something (being dmg neutral and giving MP would be a nice encouragement to use the gauge).

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Something most amusing about that dump stat. Go to splendor vendor and have peak at Ironworks gear, Piety was a fifth substat so having it forced onto your gear never felt bad. You still get the other actually useful substats..

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Originally Posted by Chopstix

Liturgy of the bell is a great ability.. in raids. Particularly savage, sometimes in extreme. The fact that WHM needs to take dmg for it to trigger can be problematic (usually works out though). The problems can be u need to use it at a different time (3rd flow in p2s), or does not do anything (healing a tank in dungeons where u dont take dmg).

Could potentially just be limited to magic dmg only, and ANY party member can trigger the aoe heal, or even better, all party members get 5 stacks and it triggers when they take dmg (i think the 1 sec rate limit is a good idea to avoid overheal and stack wasting). Guess what works like this. PANHAIMA! It even heals for a bit at the end, on a short 2 min CD.

Lilies: if u gotta heal u gotta heal. Still beats wasting mana on medica 1, and u get at least a lil bit of dmg out of it. However, dmg+heal skills on the rest of the healers r dmg neutral. So yeah, lilies should be too.

Im still not completely convinced by the 1 spam being terribad. Granted im an off role WHM, im instead kept busy by my slidecasts and figuring out where i need to use my instant casts to keep full uptime while booking it, or to squeeze in that extra GCD.

Im not sure y piety is still a stat that exists. Nobody other than WHM needs it. And those 3 healers r designed around not ever needing it. I think WHM didnt need it in SHB with the good old thin air right? So just remove piety already, have lilies restore some % mana or something (being dmg neutral and giving MP would be a nice encouragement to use the gauge).

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Here's the thing about off-role healing: It's actually pretty fun. Something that's very unusual about healing in contrast to DPS gameplay is the relationship you have with your abilities and your level of skill in that particular job. Let's take a job that I'm not very good at: DRG. When I play DRG, I am constantly focused on trying to not forget cooldowns. DRG has a handful of CDs of varying durations that all need to be used in a specific order to gain the most out of them, and learning that flow is what I imagine is the charm of playing DRG. Getting to that point of not only understanding the rotation, but also feeling confident in your memorization of it and your ability to execute it flawlessly in content is, I imagine, a great rush of adrenaline and accomplishment. And you're rewarded with more satisfying gameplay as a result.

Healing is the opposite of this. When you're new to healing and don't have the nuanced understanding of each tool and how they're best utilized like a healer main might, it can be a thrilling experience. There are many different aspects that you need to pay attention to and react to on the drop of a dime all while managing a wide archive of healing cooldowns and resources, and that's fun. When it feels like the party's HP is slipping through your fingers and you are tossing out resources left and right to grab the party and hoist them back above the water, you can feel like a god. And when you're so focused on so many other things, knowing that you don't have a rotation you need to follow and can press the same button without thinking seemingly makes sense. It gives you time to focus on everything else going on, but that doesn't last forever. For those of us who have played this role for years, or want to dedicate our time to learning the role, gaining that deeper understanding of your resources as a healer has an inverse effect to that example of the DRG.

The better at healing you get, the less you need to focus on your resources and what healing abilities you have because, just like with DPS jobs, those tools come natural to you. You've memorized them, not to mention that with fights being scripted as they are, you also know when damage is coming and are preparing for mechanics in advance. With all that fast thinking and decision making gone and replaced with a deeper understanding of your tools and strong muscle memory, all that's left is that 1 button spam.

In other words, healing seems really fun at first, but the better you get at it, the less you have to do. And isn't that kinda shitty? That an entire role is designed to lose its excitement the better you get at it? It means the people who want to be healers largely dislike the role, and the people who like it are the people who wouldn't dream of playing as healers long-term.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Snip!

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Amazingly well constructed post good sir or mam! Even more sadness inducing when you watch friend experienced with other mmos come over here. There they are with one hand holding up their head falling asleep mid dungeon while the tank Leroy's everything into the boss room. Their comment? "Oh it's stone stone cure and I'm good."

The. Entire. Dungeon into the boss room.. with the boss.. While she lethargically says that like it is nothing. That is introduction for some players to the roll and it does not change for many levels. By the twelve if you get tank that only single pulls (incredibly common at all levels especially early dungeons). If you are ever left wondering where the good healers have gone just watch new player experience the roll who mains healer in other games. They simply got bored.

Luckily I'm still at the clueless and appallingly bad WHM stage, so I have plenty of entertainment to hand.

So the only thing healer mains have to do is either completely forget everything they've ever learned and start afresh.

Or get their mate to move all their keybinds around just before a pull.

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Originally Posted by Leonerdo

If WHM did the most damage out of the healers but everything else was the same, what would you think of it?

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Everyone has a price they'd pay. There's definitely a DPS position WHM could be in where I think it'd be a good choice even if I don't think I'd enjoy playing it. If it could do 6200 RDPS in a fight then I'd probably switch to it from AST just because the gains in DPS on it would certainly outweigh the cost of making my co-healer suffer a bit more. Furthermore, I think that a fair number of WHM's detractors would be fine with its healing kit staying the same if it's DPS management was vastly improved because even if it sucks as a healer few people will deny the value of killing a fight faster. Probably wouldn't work in Ultimates but it'd be sufficient to clear savage where heal checks tend to be few and far between.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Biggest thing id want for Whm is all afflatus skills as ogcd, if theyd do that, Whm would feel worlds better to play to me...

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Exactly!!
Personally I am still wondering why on earth the Lilly spells are still on the GCD.
Ever since they were introduced in Stormblood it made the class feel so disruptive/clunky trying to use them and I don't get it they are a limited resource skill anyway so make them OGCD.. Might actually help the class flow a little better in general...

Not that its the main WHM issue by far but every tiny bit helps >_>

I'm fine with them being GCD now that they've buffed Misery and lily generation. Making them oGCD would be a misstep since they would be indistinguishable from Addersgall, making WHM and SGE GCD rhythms too similar.

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

Something most amusing about that dump stat. Go to splendor vendor and have peak at Ironworks gear, Piety was a fifth substat so having it forced onto your gear never felt bad. You still get the other actually useful substats..

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i ask this all the time, why does it still exist...specially how mp effective 3 out of 4 healers are even if we tip over..i wish it gone. if i cant meld crit or det where both get already cap on a piece of eq the third i tend to go on is sps though strangely i see healers doing dh.. dh barely scales for healers and jobs like dance bard drag monk already provides good buffs to parties dh. i always prioritze crit and det.