What do you guys think is the cause of severe lack of Tank users?

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Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono

That's not really a tank only thing though. "Sometimes feels like dps are only necessary to beat enrages. Other than that they're just there to increase efficiency in most content it seems."

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It's not just a matter of proportions, but also quantity, though. Even now, a tank is vital. It's just the actual gameplay that goes into being vital that is lackluster compared to DPS. If we consider, on a mechanical level, the general number of decisions and the quality and quantity of button-presses that go into them --as ridiculous as a perfect measure of either may be to try to find, you should get the gist of my meaning here-- those tank responsibilities amount to far less of anything conveyable into enjoyable skill-gap than do those of most DPS. And that's not to say DPS are any pinnacle; far from it. They, too, are arguably lackluster.

To take an extreme example, tank, healer, and DPS responsibilities could amount to hitting a Blue button, a Green button, and a Red button respectively, and --those buttons having the same value-- each would be equally uniquely valuable. Alternatively, all three could each be involved in far more engaging mechanics arguably classifiable as "tank", "healer", and "DPS" tasks and they'd have less unique value or responsibility (as a portion), and yet far more to do in their respective roles, and would probably reach far higher engagement.

Tank's a low reward role. You're sort of like the group slave in that the healer sets the pace, can pull the mobs and holds the groups life in their hands, while you have to do as you're told and keep up, or they'll make you keep up. Dps get a much more engaging rotation and do the real damage, with far less responsibility. You're like a walking mob magnet with a bland, boring wet noodle rotation who actually has little impact on the run in most cases. You also make an ideal target to blame for others mistakes (healer does have this problem too) "wtf use cooldowns", "pull more", "don't pull so much", "wait ffs", "go ffs".

It just doesn't have much appeal. Unlike some other MMO's you're not a juggarnaut. You're not the group leader. Your skill doesn't amount to that much. We're not even allowed self-sufficiency in our toolkit unless you're a PLD, 6 seconds of a Bloodbath copy on War is considered so OP it has to be locked to having a party member in range. Blue slave dps with occasional defensive cd is hardly a dream job.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Hey Vulcann, how you doing?



You can ask the tank those very same questions. Who are you to decide I'm not allowed to pull more while I keep everyone alive?

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because its literally the tanks job to tank and hold aggro, so you are the one the onus is on to not be a crybaby if the tank isn't pulling up to your liking.

deal with it or find a group that will let you play how you want.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Why are we pretending that the expectations Sam is mentioning are the rarity, not the norm?

Big pulls are the norm. Tanks not wasting their party's time is the norm.

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because he/she is the rarity. Tanks pull and have aggro tools they have had these tools since the beginning. you signed up for a Duty roulette with randoms so YOU the ones whining have the be the adaptable ones. YOU the whining ones have to deal with it. get over yourself and your needs.

the onus is on you to deal with it or find a static group that you can roulette with.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Yes I'm not talking about these scenarios. You probably shouldn't pull more here I agree (except point 3 maybe, depending on the instance difficulty and gear)



I agree that those extra mobs I pull will be my responsibilty and I will bring the mobs to you so you'll take aggro no matter what during your AoE rotation. If it leads to deaths, then by all means complain and get upset and kick me.

Like I've said before, healers pulling ahead of tank usually happens in faceroll content where tanks are redundant anyway.

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Nope, I ain't taking them for a reason. They are your responsiblity, full stop. You take the auto attacks, I am not going to tank those until I am good and ready to when I have the cooldowns for them. You want to be an idiot healer that grabs adds... cool, I'll just move so my AoEs don't hit those adds and you can eat the dirt and then waist the whole groups time even more by wiping. You say faceroll content, but unfortunately not everyone is going to face roll it when 99% of the time healers don't even take the time to look at everyone's gear. Tanks are required to look at gear as the dungeon starts. Get back and let the tank pull cause you pulling as a healer is putting the party at risk of wiping because you are just impatient.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

Tanks are required to look at gear as the dungeon starts..

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I can't remember the last time I actually looked at gear.

If they're high enough for the roulette, they're high enough for the wall.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

.. cool, I'll just move so my AoEs don't hit those adds and you can eat the dirt and then waist the whole groups time even more by wiping.

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This seems very childish behavior to me. Kind of proves my point that it's an ego issue and not based on the team's best interest and purpose.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

You say faceroll content, but unfortunately not everyone is going to face roll it when 99% of the time healers don't even take the time to look at everyone's gear.

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It's faceroll content because the healer literally doesn't or barely need(s) to heal the tank when they pull 1 group at a time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

This seems very childish behavior to me. Kind of proves my point that it's an ego issue and not based on the team's best interest and purpose.



It's faceroll content because the healer literally doesn't or barely need(s) to heal the tank when they pull 1 group at a time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

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I mean it can also be argued that it is in fact, ego that a healer or dps races ahead to pull more for the tank instead of allowing them to set a pace they are comfortable with. Personally I always run wall to wall, but everyone had their own challenges when it comes to tanking, whether it be anxiety, comfort zone or whatever else. It can be considered quite disrespectful for another, much the way healers can get offended when PLDs clemency themself instead of letting the healer make use of their toolkit. Sometimes it is as Barret says that the CDs aren't there, where certain mobs have mini busters or can buff themself, that they do not have appropriate mitigation for e.g. The Twinning.

Many tanks are against it, simple because it is some of the small amount of agency left in the role and no body likes people stepping on their turf. While if you barely need to heal the tank, then means you can get some more damage out to speed it up instead of running ahead of the tank.

It's better for newer / inexperienced / anxious tanks if party members actually communicate, there is a chat function in game. Instead of running ahead without any words, you could try explaining: "there is another pack ahead, you can easily grab that one as well" which offers a bit more reassurance and has a higher chance of promoting more confidence for that tank player.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

Nope, I ain't taking them for a reason. They are your responsiblity, full stop. You take the auto attacks, I am not going to tank those until I am good and ready to when I have the cooldowns for them. You want to be an idiot healer that grabs adds... cool, I'll just move so my AoEs don't hit those adds and you can eat the dirt and then waist the whole groups time even more by wiping. You say faceroll content, but unfortunately not everyone is going to face roll it when 99% of the time healers don't even take the time to look at everyone's gear. Tanks are required to look at gear as the dungeon starts. Get back and let the tank pull cause you pulling as a healer is putting the party at risk of wiping because you are just impatient.

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You're actually the one putting the group in danger of wiping because you are refusing to do your job by your own admission.

New players tend to avoid tanking in any game, because of the role's perceived difficulty/responsibility, so there's always less people picking it up. Even players who could potentially love it, often need to get over certain fears before they actually try it out.

On the other hand, since the current state of FFXIV tanks is ironically anything but challenging and impactful, veterans and other people who've gravitated towards tanks because they find those aspects attractive are leaving, due to SHB gutting any complexity from tank jobs and role's mechanics themselves.

SE's mistake is thinking that dumbing the role down will make more people try tanking and stay. In reality people will still steer away from the role, simply because of its reputation and how it puts them in the spotlight, while reducing complexity also removes what keeps those who actually tried it engaged. Basically SE is attempting to make tank jobs appeal to people who dislike tanking and while it works for a little bit, those people will just get bored after a while and go back to DPS jobs and those actually predisposed towards tanking are left with unfulfilling, shallow crap which also makes them leave.

They need to realize that the appeal of tanks(and healers) is the responsibility. Trying to minimize this aspect removes an important niche that part of the player-base seeks and it won't attract the others for long either. People who "just want to do their thing" already play the DPS role - why would they switch over to something that offers far less variety in playstyle and aesthetics?