Ranged DPS role is about to be excluded from all content

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Originally Posted by Lina_Slayer

You understand that when BLM struggled in SB it took until 4.2 to give it any thing of potency buff? Literally 6 months to give the worst DPS in the game something.

When nin struggled it took until 5.08, MNK until 5.05, SAM until 5.08, you realise SMN got basically nothing despite being way behind SAM (who got ~3% dps buff) and that ranged DPS were not even mentioned for buffs?

So yes I'll keep saying they are horribly melee biased, BLM was OP on release, which was incredibly lucky, because I've already seen how long it takes for us non-melee plebs to receive any kind of love.

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Black Mage got a significant PPS buff in 4.05 when they reduced the 4 spells to 2.8 from 3.0. I also believe triplecast started at 90s and was reduced to 60 in this same patch.

Yeah, checking the patch notes again, we also had MP adjustments that effectively ensured we always got our B4 6F4 cycle without having to worry about MP ticks.

To be fair, it also wasn't enough at the time, but what can you do? Compared to the other jobs at the time, it was a comparative amount of attention that, while not fixing some damage issues, fixed some pretty glaring issues with the class MP design and overall flow.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Black Mage got a significant PPS buff in 4.05 when they reduced the 4 spells to 2.8 from 3.0. I also believe triplecast started at 90s and was reduced to 60 in this same patch.

Yeah, checking the patch notes again, we also had MP adjustments that effectively ensured we always got our B4 6F4 cycle without having to worry about MP ticks.

To be fair, it also wasn't enough at the time, but what can you do? Compared to the other jobs at the time, it was a comparative amount of attention that, while not fixing some damage issues, fixed some pretty glaring issues with the class MP design and overall flow.

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Yeah you are right I started on 4.05 so I wasn't aware the job was even weaker on release... It still took 6 months for the job to be competitive (heck an Ultimate was released with BLM in that pitiful state), and then just look to that freaking wall of text of buffs NIN got in a .08 patch, while SMN got a QoL that will amount to almost nothing and everyone else got literally nothing.

Don't get me wrong tho I'm happy NIN is stronger, it is deserved, but I just wish they were as responsive when it comes to buffing caster/phys ranged.

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Originally Posted by Cetonis

They've had 8+ weeks of live servers, and still haven't been able to realize that ranged dps are heading for the dumpster. A test server would not have made them any less blind.

SE needs to solve some fundamental problems with their perception of job balance vs. the public perception of job balance.

They can think what they like about the accuracy of fflogs, or the justified-ness of the playerbase primarily valuing damage contribution at the high end of play. But they have to respect that these things impact player behavior way more than their calculations or wishful thinking ever will.

That doesn't mean they need to completely cave on their design philosophy and balance solely around fflogs, but they can't just wholly disregard it as they seem to be doing.

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The problem I've noticed is the dev team can seemingly get very stubborn with their ideas. Look no further than Monk who launched with the slow on Riddle of Fire, no way to maintain their stacks and yet another situational ability for Greased Lightning; all things Monks complained about for years. It took people outright refusing to touch the job for the devs to panic buff it with everything people wanted. Samurai is another example. They seem to think we pad Samurai, which is why they refuse to buff them appropriately yet never seem to realize we're going to buff the strongest jobs not the ones they think we should.

I dare say it's almost a good thing the Range are in such a dire state. That seems to be the only thing that grabs the devs attention.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

A large part of the playerbase putting so much emphasis on damage output is their fault to begin with. The number of mechanics people are expected to do increases a bit with every expansion, it seems like. Combine the ever-growing number of mechanics (and increased pace/overlapping thereof) with tighter and tighter and tighter enrage timers and you get a bunch of players that want to push maximum damage to the exclusion of almost all else to get everything over with ASAP. The faster it dies, the less likely the raid is to wipe.

Mind you, this isn't one of those lolgametoohard posts. I have no opinion on the game's difficulty as it currently stands. I do, however, believe there is a direct correlation between fight design and the need for greater emphasis on damage. The damage first mentality existed as early as the coils in ARR, I concede, but it wasn't anywhere near as prevalent as it is now. Subsequent changes to encounter design philosophy have necessitated a far more aggressive approach to most fights.

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What encourages the heavy focus on DPS is their entire design philosophy. There is virtually nothing else to care about except damage. They stripped away a lot of utility; frankly out of fear because of the Stormblood synergy, seemingly never realizing it would just cause yet another imbalance.

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Originally Posted by Lina_Slayer

You understand that when BLM struggled in SB it took until 4.2 to give it any thing of potency buff? Literally 6 months to give the worst DPS in the game something.

When nin struggled it took until 5.08, MNK until 5.05, SAM until 5.08, you realise SMN got basically nothing despite being way behind SAM (who got ~3% dps buff) and that ranged DPS were not even mentioned for buffs?

So yes I'll keep saying they are horribly melee biased, BLM was OP on release, which was incredibly lucky, because I've already seen how long it takes for us non-melee plebs to receive any kind of love.

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You understand how SAM struggled in SB?

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Originally Posted by Drayos

Tbh it might be time to give up on the RDM dream haha.

Haha don’t know if I have it in me to level another job up though haha

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Don't give up. RDM might get buff soon, stay strong!

So... does this mean I should give up my Mch and go Blm? I've been doing really well with Mch and still have issues with movement on Blm, but if phys ranged are being ditched, then I guess I have no choice but to learn to be a Blm. :(

While I agree the range should be brought up, people cleared all content on week 1 with all jobs so I can't believe this is to be an actual issue.

My static has a Nin and a BRD and we cleared E2S on week2 with no dps issue (, and had we raid 2 more days the first week it would have been a week 1 clear)

So, yes they should be buffed, but any party not bringing a range because of that 1k difference isn't worth much.
If your group just has every player at 40% perf that should be enough to get a clear on any boss, especially with the 460 weapon

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

As it is ranged dps will always do less damage since they don't suffer the same restrictions as other dps jobs.

Melee need to mind their position and can't afford to move as they want since they need to stick close to the target to keep their dps up.
Caster dps have casting time and have to be stationary when they don't have any instant cast to make a move so it's more planning or they lose dps.
Ranged dps can be wherever they want and be constantly on the move and not lose any dps at all. That mobility and convenience is what lower their dps.

If you're looking at a farm party where you know all the dps and caster dps will perform their job perfectly and knows the fight enough that you're sure there'll be no problem, sure having a ranged in a party will be a negligible dps loss. In other situation a ranged dps will always have an easier time pulling solid numbers, even if things go wrong or the party is still new to the fight. And that's because of the convenience of the job.

Now I'll agree that the argument had more weight when they could also replenish ressources such as mp and tp.
But if you want them to have a dps closer to what melees do, ranged will need a new trade-off to make up for it, which would be totally fine. Something like a perfect distance mechanic, where you've got to stay at a certain range of the monster to hit harder on all of your skills, something on your hud would tell you when you're at that range. And they could add a role skill that would be like true north and make it so you can bypass that for 10 seconds when you have to.

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Less damage is fair, but being several thousand dps under a black mage despite being around the same skill level and gear isn't.

The ranged tax should be at most 500 rdps in exchange for not worrying about positionals or uptime as much.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

While I agree the range should be brought up, people cleared all content on week 1 with all jobs so I can't believe this is to be an actual issue.

My static has a Nin and a BRD and we cleared E2S on week2 with no dps issue (, and had we raid 2 more days the first week it would have been a week 1 clear)

So, yes they should be buffed, but any party not bringing a range because of that 1k difference isn't worth much.
If your group just has every player at 40% perf that should be enough to get a clear on any boss, especially with the 460 weapon

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To preface, I’m speaking as a DNC that cleared E1S to E3S Week 1 and E4S Week 2.

Just because the physical ranged and SMN/RDM are viable (read: can clear the content) doesn’t mean that they aren’t underpowered compared to some of the other jobs and BLM. The difference is anywhere from 1,000 to 1,500 DPS—it’s astoundingly large. There’s very little reason for the gap to be this large between the Top DPS jobs (BLM, MNK, DRG, SAM and now possibly NIN) and the bottom jobs (SMN, RDM, the physical ranged).

seriously guys cmon, its the same old pattern again. iam sure they going to buff every class later, they just doing it one by one. first AST and MNK, now the NIN and SAM, so yeah give it time.