So, can we just ban damage meters already.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I think you need to read up on the definition of "harassment".
Stating a simple fact is not and never will be considered harassment as long as the fact is conveyed in a non insulting manner.
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Exactly. 100% agreement.

When conveyed in a non insulting manner, it’s fine.

I was using the sentence “dps pull your weight” because I find the sentence unconstructive, but perhaps thats open to debate.

The point I was really trying to state is that harassment has more to do with how something is conveyed rather than what is actually conveyed.

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

I was using the sentence “dps pull your weight” because I find the sentence unconstructive, but perhaps thats open to debate.
The point I was really trying to state is that harassment has more to do with how something is conveyed rather than what is actually conveyed.

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Hmm it's already formulated somewhat aggressively.
I can see how it would ruffle feathers in an already stressful situation.

I'd probably write: "No one died (good!) but we need more DPS. Everybody seek possibilities to squeeze out some more but don't take unnecessary risks."
As long as people die, mentioning DPS is pointless. Mechanics need to come first and be played cleanly, only then can you optimize output/uptime.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Hmm it's already formulated somewhat aggressively.
I can see how it would ruffle feathers in an already stressful situation.

I'd probably write: "No one died (good!) but we need more DPS. Everybody seek possibilities to squeeze out some more but don't take unnecessary risks."
As long as people die, mentioning DPS is pointless. Mechanics need to come first and be played cleanly, only then can you optimize output/uptime.

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I agree, no disagreement from me.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Mentioning it
Mentioning that someone's damange is lower then someone
Pasting numbers


It's enough to get a GM's attention it.
Running a meter is tolerated as long as it's used for yourself only and not against someone ingame.

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I had no idea that this was the case, but as a WoW refugee, I cannot tell you how happy I am to see this. I always used damage meters to help me improve my own game, but I always hated when others would post numbers to belittle everyone else or to emphasize how over-geared they were for the content we were running. If no one is dying, I don't see how criticism of any sort is merited. Well-designed fights have much more to them than sheer DPS anyway.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

Asking people to carry their weight or telling DPS they aren't doing enough damage and need to do more does not mean you are using "damage meters". Also, it isn't harassment.

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If the party is repeatedly wiping and someone is spending half the fight AFK, then it may be justified. If you're clearing bosses in a timely manner and no one is dying, then it's harassment. Context is everything.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

I had no idea that this was the case, but as a WoW refugee, I cannot tell you how happy I am to see this. I always used damage meters to help me improve my own game, but I always hated when others would post numbers to belittle everyone else or to emphasize how over-geared they were for the content we were running. If no one is dying, I don't see how criticism of any sort is merited. Well-designed fights have much more to them than sheer DPS anyway.

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Yeah, this isnt like WoW where reports a waist of time. If anything, they are taken so seriously that you should honestly have a clear case before reporting it because there’s increasingly people in fear of saying anything due to fear of being banned.

Like, for a parser, I would want some actual numbers rather than just assume they have one. I dont need a parser to tell the tank isnt in tank stance for example.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Personally I experienced the overall community of this game as pretty welcoming, supporting and friendly - given that you do your part, including making sure you have appropriate gear, a general knowledge of your job (that is appropriate of your current level) and of the general mechanics the game throws at you. It also includes communication with your party - saying "sorry", "hello", "I'm new" and "I'm open to any advice!" can go a long way. At least thats my experience.

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This has been my experience too. I was running through an instance for the first time as a White Mage the other day, and we wiped on a boss. The tank suggested that I would have a better time healing if I cleared the poison debuffs. This was the first time in this game that I had even seen debuffs in a dungeon, and I wasn't familiar with the poison icons. After he pointed this out, I made sure to look for the debuffs and clear them. We took out the boss on the next clear. The tank thanked me for adapting quickly and even gave me a commendation. No one rage quit or crapped all over me for having failed on the first attempt. That, in my opinion, is how an MMO experience should be.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

I had no idea that this was the case, but as a WoW refugee, I cannot tell you how happy I am to see this. I always used damage meters to help me improve my own game, but I always hated when others would post numbers to belittle everyone else or to emphasize how over-geared they were for the content we were running. If no one is dying, I don't see how criticism of any sort is merited. Well-designed fights have much more to them than sheer DPS anyway.

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If there is something to criticise it means that not everyone in the party was pulling their full weight (or there wouldnt be anything to criticise) and that means that the person(s) in question got through the content because the other people were able to make up for their shortcomings.
Now, I'm always asking the following question: If everyone performed at the level of the under-performing person would the content still be cleared in a reasonable amount of time?
If the answer is "No, it probably wouldnt" there is a problem with that person and that problem should be adressed - harrassment- and insult-free, of course, but polite and in the best outcome constructive criticism is absolutly warranted.

Most content in the game is so easy that you can under-performing players. That doesnt mean you should or have to.
Clearing content doesnt mean everyone in the party did well. Clearing content means that the party did well (or well enough to clear the content). That can include the party making up for the shortcomings of one of their members - something they shouldnt have to do. But how does that member get better or even knows that they need to get better if no one tells them?

Edit: I would also like to point out that "no one is dying" puts a lot of weight on the shoulders of the healer(s). Everyone can happly fail mechanics and not die as long as the healer(s) make up for those mistakes. Depending on my mood when healing I might be willing to heal people through their mistakes, so "no one is dying" - but only because I'm making sure about them not killing themselves by being stupid.

You just need to report them in game under the help button. Again save any chat log you have showing he's parsing you and it is a banable offense.

Why is telling someone that they are under performing (without any insults) is considered as harassment, but the fact that people let themselves to be lazy in duties and not care that with that they are hurting the group - is not?
Why is it that only bad players, those that don't want to improve can be harassed?
No one is ever asking anyone to know their job perfectly and make no mistakes. Just pull your weight and no one will ever tell you anything. Otherwise - use Trust System and don't harass players with your disrespect to their effort and time with your laziness.