When do the training wheels come off?

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Slightly off topic, but relevant to a few posts/comments here and in general forums. People aren't AoEing enough. The people getting upset about this, have you not been playing this game very long? Any time something lets the dungeon runs go faster and you force it onto other players, what happens?



Just a couple examples off the top of my head speed runs, SE nerfs those. MSQ skipping cs SE nerfs that, that fate in N Than where you could just kill the mobs for 15 mins SE nerfs that. I am not saying that you guys are going to lead to some new type of nerf. But forcing a higher/different level of game play onto others really hasn't worked in the past.

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Yeah, it is really hard for a player to use aoe skills rather than single target skills. Ridiculous. I've seen this brought up countless times. They are aoe abiltiies, they are there for a reason, use them.

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Originally Posted by Selova

BLM does not use Fire 2 post level 68. If you're going to insult players about not knowing how to play their jobs you might want to not spread misinformation yourself.

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I’m not attacking and is genuinely trying to get info on BLM. What exactly do BLM spam for aoe? I usually spam fire 2 while weaving in lightning, foul and then flare at the end and switch to freeze spam, while refreshing lighting and foul. So what do you guys do if not use fire 2?

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

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Originally Posted by Lmcgyver

I find that the only reasons for people being in this situation is ignorance of how poorly the Recommended Gear button is implemented at low levels or how different stats affect them (in which case, elucidation of the feature is required), ignorance of the fact that they can get acceptable gear from a vendor (prompting a quick pointer to what vendor sells gear they can use; or if I'm feeling generous, a free, full HQ set for their job when the duty is finished that'll be good to last them 10 levels), or just outright laziness (which is not an acceptable excuse).

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The recommended gear button is very appealing and I don’t think it’s a coincidence we’re discussing a level 44 tank. Yelling at that person, kicking them, isn’t going to help them realize the limitations of the recommended gear button.
For example, I once healed a dungeon where the tank wasn’t using grit, and this was a HW dungeon. I could have yelled at the tank, tried to initiate a kick, but instead I simply said “Are you aware you don’t have grit on?” – one second later, it was on and never left.
I find it’s more useful to interact with the other player rather than simply assuming they are dumb, lazy, and nothing will change no matter is said. Some people are just new, but willing to work, or they don’t realize they forgot to do something they normally do.

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I'm not sure where all this talk of yelling/kicking etc. came from. I never assume a player is "dumb/lazy/unable to change" (at least, not until all other possibilities are exhausted), and do, in fact, quite often reach out when I see someone who may be in need of help. I am well aware of the appeal of the Recommended Gear button and how much of a trap it is, hence being ready and willing to explain to the player in question the pitfalls of the system. I can definitely agree that yelling at and/or kicking a player is neither a helpful nor constructive avenue for player growth.

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Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

I’m not attacking and is genuinely trying to get info on BLM. What exactly do BLM spam for aoe? I usually spam fire 2 while weaving in lightning, foul and then flare at the end and switch to freeze spam, while refreshing lighting and foul. So what do you guys do if not use fire 2?

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I believe, from level 68, it's generally along the lines of Freeze > Thunder IV > Fire III > Flare > Flare > Transpose (skip if 72+) > Freeze > etc.. That being said, I'm not well versed in the ShB BLM AoE rotation; I know it doesn't use Fire II or Blizzard II though.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Slightly off topic, but relevant to a few posts/comments here and in general forums. People aren't AoEing enough. The people getting upset about this, have you not been playing this game very long? Any time something lets the dungeon runs go faster and you force it onto other players, what happens?



Just a couple examples off the top of my head speed runs, SE nerfs those. MSQ skipping cs SE nerfs that, that fate in N Than where you could just kill the mobs for 15 mins SE nerfs that. I am not saying that you guys are going to lead to some new type of nerf. But forcing a higher/different level of game play onto others really hasn't worked in the past.

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Wh... asking people to aoe when there are multiple mobs to hit is "higher level play"? Since when??

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Originally Posted by Lmcgyver

I believe, from level 68, it's generally along the lines of Freeze > Thunder IV > Fire III > Flare > Flare > Transpose (skip if 72+) > Freeze > etc.. That being said, I'm not well versed in the ShB BLM AoE rotation; I know it doesn't use Fire II or Blizzard II though.

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Wait..we can flare twice? Hm...I need to experiment. I was starting to have a sneaking thought on maybe I should use freeze more since it feels like it goes off faster but I wasn’t sure. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Wh... asking people to aoe when there are multiple mobs to hit is "higher level play"? Since when??

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Apparently, it is. You are a bad person for rushing these players if you try to ask them, or tell them to aoe! Stick to single pulls, no aoe!

https://media.giphy.com/media/l2QDTq...JXlC/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Wh... asking people to aoe when there are multiple mobs to hit is "higher level play"? Since when??

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More I was getting at forcing people into pulls that make aoes more efficient over single mob rotations. Then getting mad that they don't aoe when the party grabbed that many. It seems to be popping up a bit on both sides on the forum. I was gently implying that forcing a certain type of game play has led to a few punishments to the player base in the past. I could be wrong but it feels like SE sides with the less stress model over the faster model. We used to be able to pull almost boss to boss. They can't gate it anymore, can they? Next choice would be an AoE nerf, which really wouldn't hurt solo play. Just the players that enjoy getting together with friends pulling hard and finishing dungeons fast.

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Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

Wait..we can flare twice? Hm...I need to experiment. I was starting to have a sneaking thought on maybe I should use freeze more since it feels like it goes off faster but I wasn’t sure. Thanks!

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Starting from level 68, a Flare with any Umbral Hearts consumes them to leave enough MP for a second Flare (provided you had at least 2,400 MP); so yes, you can Flare twice.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

I'll be the bad guy.

I don't know why we talk about new players as if they were defenseless babies. When I started playing during 2.0, I picked the tank role up and I KNEW that I had to wear heavy armor because I have to eat damage and better armor gives better reduction, right? Like every RPG ever. You learn while doing dungeons that, as you progress, better gear will drop (Green big numbers with a plus sign indicating it's an upgrade) And that's a something you have to be aware of, specially when you know you will get paired up with other people. So I feel it's just laziness. It's an attitude that I've seen plenty of times in this game no matter what level.

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I'm going to join in with you.

Everyone wants to go 'we need more tutorials, we need more quests to show us how to play!' or some other noob coddling nonsense.

Maybe if new players were kicked in the rear a bit harder, they wouldn't be relying on carries, and would be more apt to learning their class, role, and abilities. Just because Sastasha pops up, doesn't mean the conjurors, gladiators, and marauders get a pass. They ARE expected to play their roles. The only pass they may get is not knowing fights. But they will be expected to keep mobs off everyone else if they are tanking, and will be expected to keep hp bars topped off if a healer, and to take down mobs as dps.

But yeah.. I have to agree with others. By level 44 you are not a new player. To me, 30 is the cap off point. You've got a basic rotation, all the tools needed for your role, and had a bunch of gear thrown your way to know what goes where. Make it work. If you're a gamer, should be no problem. If you're not, do whatever your boyfriend tells you to do.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

More I was getting at forcing people into pulls that make aoes more efficient over single mob rotations. Then getting mad that they don't aoe when the party grabbed that many. It seems to be popping up a bit on both sides on the forum. I was gently implying that forcing a certain type of game play has led to a few punishments to the player base in the past. I could be wrong but it feels like SE sides with the less stress model over the faster model. We used to be able to pull almost boss to boss. They can't gate it anymore, can they? Next choice would be an AoE nerf, which really wouldn't hurt solo play. Just the players that enjoy getting together with friends pulling hard and finishing dungeons fast.

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Nobody is "forcing" anything these players are choosing not to use their kit, at the detriment of the party. They should be kicked immediately. Not like they even do their single target efficiently either, for that matter. Expecting other players to put in the work for them, because they can't be bothered to put even an ounce of effort into their play. AOE abilities should be used on pulls, not even big ones, most of the time.