I'm not at all saying that's what they should do, just that's all they can do at this point... Some post-MSQ flash backs and the Anniversary Tales are the only possible way for them to flesh him out at this point, since he is already dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnicton
I disagree that his character needs a complete rewrite, his character was actually perfectly fine IMO. The issue is just they pretty much never showed it, the entire Minfilia/Ryne Thancred/Ran'jit arc was fairly rushed IMO, and I think Ran'jit came out the worst of it. His character was, and should have been shown as, a father figure for Ryne. Instead he is just the angry guy that's chasing after us, who comes off as solely abusive more than anything else. Pepper in a couple Echo flashbacks to actually show us his character, maybe give him a few solid interactions with Ryne to flesh out their relationship. Done, the actual character he is said to have is now shown. Instead the only window into any of that we actually see is his dying line, which I agree, is an absolutely terrible way to have handled things. That's the issue with Ran'jit in a nutshell, we're told things about him, and shown very little of it. All we're consistently shown is that he is a competent general, everything else we're only told... It needed to be shown, and that's the problem with him.
It's far too late for them to shoehorn that kind of stuff into the MSQ though, so I see little point in laboring the point. Best we can hope for is some post-story that might flesh him out a bit, which yes is a flawed way to handle things, but I didn't say it was a good way to handle it, did I? I simply said it's the best we can hope for. I agree that his character was poorly handled in the MSQ, but to say his character could be completely removed? No, I disagree with that. Like him or not, he was central to Rynes character arc and development. You can't just remove a character like that and replace him with a couple of nameless jesters... Wouldn't even make sense to have those two following us around the world... Eulmore needed a general, and it makes perfect sense for that general to also have be the "father" who raises Minfilias. It's a shame the MSQ focused solely on him being the big-bad leader of Eulmores army, when his relationship to the Minfilias and Ryne had far more potential. Only thing they can do to rectify that now is (hopefully) an Anniversary Tale.
Ran'jit's strength makes no sense
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08-24-2019, 06:52 PMNalien
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08-25-2019, 12:47 AMTheodric
I wonder how much of the complaints about Ran'jit and similar characters stem from some people being bitter that their glassy eyed waifu characters are actually given a run for their money and can't just cut through anything and everything put before them? I found him to be a pretty interesting character - a former hero with a tragic past broken by the bleak fate of the world.
It's particularly hilarious when those selfsame posters are absolutely fine with new protagonists being able to perform feats of great strength the moment that they appear!
Sure, more information about Ran'jit would be appreciated, though it isn't a problem for him to be powerful enough to give the Warrior of Light and Scions a hard time. The story would be very boring if it was just a power fantasy along the veins as some here wish it to be! -
08-25-2019, 12:51 AMLauront
I attributed his "strength" to his unpredictable fighting style. TBH, you were whisked away from that first fight. His fighting style probably took some getting used to but once you knew how to deal with it, you overcame him. That he could pose a challenge for someone like Thancred is only understandable.
Also, some individuals on the First do possess the Echo - even a fractured soul with the Echo could prove a challenge, even if slight in the grand scheme of things. Maybe that is part of it. So that's what I make of it. I don't think they're really suggesting he's that mighty. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That said, they do have to leave some room for characters outside of Primals, Ascian Overlords, Lightwardens, Voidsent royals, genetically engineered Purebloods and the like to pose a challenge, else it becomes rather one note.
At times, it does have that vibe... I am sure the devs realise that soon grows boring. I just wish they'd put a bit more focus on fight mechanics for fights like Hades, rather than watering down the MSQ version so everyone can get through it with minimal effort and leaving it all to ex modes. Not like you can't just watch a video of the outcome if you're that in a hurry to find it out; the main point of those fights should be their difficulty. I don't put too much stock into mechanical difficulty, though, because MSQ fights will lose out by default, especially depending on the format, but they really can go a bit further with the trials and the like. Like the solo duties with Zenos or Elidibus, or Zenos in the dungeon. They don't do the characters justice by implementing the mechanics in that way, regardless of what their lore "power levels" are, not to mention the joke that they are with tank or healer jobs, which really should see ramped up difficulty to make them sweat a bit. At least it isn't as outright ridiculous as some of the stuff in HW...Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
With all that said, some people were annoyed that the Dramaturge made their character fetch things. :D -
08-25-2019, 01:02 AMTheodric
I just brush off the disconnect between the EX fights and story fights as game-play and story segregation. I did like it better when the EX fights were canon, though - they do a much better job at making specific characters be very intimidating. Though given how much of a variety there is in terms of skill level amidst members of the community I'm not surprised that the development team are forced to compromise in such a matter.
At least the story makes a point of showing that the Warrior of Light rarely triumphs alone and usually has allies backing him up. If not for that, he'd likely be akin to a squashed pancake on the floor against many a foe! Even in many JRPG's, the 'main hero' never defeats the big bad alone. Or at least in most cases. I've never cared much for the 'one many army' trope, though. Nor have I felt compelled to consider my characters to be as such as a role-player. -
08-25-2019, 01:07 AMLauront
Agreed, I do much the same, though I kinda wish the ex modes were the "canon" ones, with the normals being either non-canon "officially", or just your hazy recollection of them whilst caught up in the excitement of the battle.
Granted, with the WoL there is the aspect of being 9/14ths full "Overlord"-equivalent (then, 8/14ths) plus the Blessing of Light, which is a truly formidable combination, but there are clearly ways you can still blindside the character besides overwhelming them through sheer power and Ran'jit was one case of this. Trying to put it all down to pure "power levels" is probably a fool's errand in this regard. -
08-25-2019, 01:09 AMTheodricAnother route would be tighter restrictions on how much you can 'outgear' a fight. Some battles are a lot more impressive than others for that reason. I did Shinryu last night, in fact, and it melted quickly with minimal threat - but at Stormblood's launch it was quite easy to wipe. Tsukoyumi, however, is still quite fearsome if mechanics are not followed due to how much damage she is capable of unleashing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauront
That, and it's easy to get distracted during the fight due to how much of a tragic character she is! Especially when the music shifts during phase transitions. I still consider Yotsuyu and Hien to be the best characters to come out of Stormblood. Fordola being a close third in equal place with Magnai. -
08-25-2019, 01:12 AMLauront
Yes, or the Thordan fight, which is a bit of a joke now. Yes yes, you can "just do ex", but it waters down the experience for the normal versions to become that way. I find Nabriales is one of the few trials that have withstood the test of time.
The Tsukuyomi and Hades fights can both be quite distracting! -
08-25-2019, 03:17 AMAbsimiliard
The true source of Ran'jit's power is definitely his eyebrows. By having those, he has proven to us that SE is indeed capable of giving us Highlander models with eyebrows. Cat's out of the bag.
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08-25-2019, 04:44 AMAvidria
I was hoping we'd get some explanation for why and how he beat us. I mean, yeah he's been fighting sin eaters his whole life, and yeah they're a powerful foe. But we've been running around slaying primals and monsters and voidsent for however long we've been doing that, so we're not exactly rookies.
And... not sure if it's cheese or not but we are 8x closer to having our original soul than he is. I feel like that should count for something? Maybe?
Honestly I had a problem with that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright-Flower
You expect me to believe this guy was somehow stupidly powerful compared to me for reasons, and then he somehow magically becomes a bit of a pushover, again for... reasons???? His death was so unbelievably unsatisfying that it was actually frustrating to me. -
08-25-2019, 05:00 AMSaberMaxwell
Honestly, the thing that annoys me most is the gameplay - story segregation here. You can play Ran'jit for a fool in the fight, dancing around all but his autos and busters, but then at some point he just says "screw it" and "kills" (neither of my characters actually dropped to even 1hp from his final attack) your character. I'm absolutely fine with Ran'jit being a strong character, but in most RPGs I've played when there's a battle you're *supposed to lose*...but you win, the story acknowledges that with at least your character stalemating them in the cutscene after.
Kingdom Hearts 1 for instance: you're not supposed to beat Leon, but you can, and if you do the following cutscene is different. It leads to the same conclusion: Sora passes out, though the player is left with the satisfaction that their winning or losing in the fight was by their own power. Disgaea 2 takes this in an extreme direction, actually giving unique endings if you, say, beat Etna in Chapter 3 or Laharl in Chapter 11(?). If say, you beat Ran'jit in the fight, the cutscene following could reflect that with WoL still standing, if looking exhausted; Ran'jit could comment about not expecting to be pushed so far, charge his attack and then Thancred pulls his trickery, scene plays out as normal.
TBH, for me, it's really just the insult of "well I'm oneshotting you now." Unwinnable fights can be done so much better, and they can even be rewarding when you do win.