The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

To be fair most of the time I've actually asked someone not to pull extra while I'm tanking I get "LOL LRN 2TANK, UR 2 SLOW!" or something equivalently well thought out as a response. I'm not a bad tank, but first runs in gear that barely broke ilevel I will do single pulls until I know the whole dungeon so i've had a few run ins with people who didn't like how I was doing it.

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Those are the appropriate responses to single pulls.

If your gear meets the requirements, you're past Brayflox, and you've kept up with the npc gear for the dungeon you're running, either you're a bad tank or the healer needs to be replaced.

While as I said earlier, I love big pulls, I don't enjoy them nearly as much in the leveling dungeons,(the non end tier 50,60,70 ) I find I end up have to constantly heal to keep the tank up (they aren't good or under geared but think pulling big makes them a good tank). It is still a win if the dps are good, but if one of the dps are poor then it can actually take longer.

I really wish they didn't ilvl sync leveling dungeons so tightly yet still allowing woefully under geared folks to queue up.

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Originally Posted by ElroyDrundan

Again I want to know what kind of tanks you are tanking with. A great/geared warrior tank on AoE pulls will dps on par with the better dpsers. They round them all up for the big pulls. I found for the most part well played dps classes are the rarity and I get so excited when I see one join that is going to be at or ahead of my heal dps...

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Duty finder tanks and dps are the entire reason I main a healer now, even if I'd rather tank.

I've done all three roles, and the only role that can make up for global potato is healer.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Those are the appropriate responses to single pulls.

If your gear meets the requirements, you're past Brayflox, and you've kept up with the npc gear for the dungeon you're running, either you're a bad tank or the healer needs to be replaced.

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Because god forbid I want to run a dungeon I've never run before as a tank a little carefully?

As a Main tank myself I pull according to my healer and dependent on the mobs being dealt with. There are some rather massive mobs in this game that if you get more then a few of them it's hard keep them in check as their always bumping with other mobs. Not allowing them to get in a easily controllable mob. Then there are the ones that do a large AOE that force you to have to reposition every time. If the healer is comfortable with large mob pulls then I'll grab then in large chunks. But I do so in moderation and make sure that they can be positioned best. I notice at times smaller mobs are easierto DPS down faster, especially when you have the right composition of DPS. Larger mobs is a pain for DPS that currently do not have that good of AOEs. In the end each player has their preference and when using the DF or roullette, each person has equal right to how they play because it is a random set-up.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Those are the appropriate responses to single pulls.

If your gear meets the requirements, you're past Brayflox, and you've kept up with the npc gear for the dungeon you're running, either you're a bad tank or the healer needs to be replaced.

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the reason you keep citing Brayflox as some kind of gold standard to knowing how to tank is baffling to me.... you CAN pull larger groups in there, but nothing about the dungeon says you have to. There's nothing about that dungeon that serves as a training ground that forces the tank to grab larger groups, if anything it's a training ground for the tank to be aware of patrolling enemies.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

with all due respect, you shot yourself in the foot by not doing multipack pulls while leveling. simple double pulls are good practice and just about every dungeon in this game lets you pull two packs at once. at HW and SB levelcap, dungeons are gated to prevent you from pulling more than two (sometimes three) at a time. you should be learning the basics of pulling (and multipack pulling) on your way to cap not when youre already there.

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You're both right and wrong here. Playing DPS alongside tanking, I never saw a wall to wall pull until I started running level 60 dungeons (I didn't bother unlocking the level 50 dungeons on my way to Heavensward), so there was no reason to expect that this was a skill I should have been learning and practicing up to that point. All I can say there is I was playing Paladin before leaving the game for about a year and a half during ARR, and never had to do massive pulls, came back, and decided to play with Dark Knight after getting to Ishgard, and just played the job the same as I'd played tanking in early ARR. So yeah, for me, at least, learning curve when it game to that, and coming late into Heavensward, I was running into, at the time, the issue of me being in item level 190 gear while the DPS I was playing alongside were closer to 230. The discrepancy at the time between what damage I could put out, even in tank stance, and what damage they could deal made holding hate a real challenge (not to mention also being yelled at for using tank stance in the first place)

So it was all of that combined that made me decide that the community is too unforgiving and demanding of someone who is low gear and seeing something different for the first time to even try to learn since I went from single packs being okay to being expected to pull everything in my poor gear immediately. This is something I could probably work on now if I had the desire, but that early experience soured me to even wanting to learn.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Because god forbid I want to run a dungeon I've never run before as a tank a little carefully?

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You do you. Not everyone here is as kick happy or self centered as some people are around here.

In theory I agree with you pull it you tank it, but generally when someone else pulls I find it's a dps and if I DON'T pull it off the dps it's just gonna go after the healer when they start healing the dps so I just pick it up.

But as others have said, if a tank is going to slow, SAY SOMETHING don't just start pulling for them. It's really annoying.

I generally do double/wall-to-wall pulls in anything level capped (leveling dungeons are a mixed bag and it kinda depends on the dungeon/group), but if the party clearly isn’t able to handle the pulls due to either gear or just general reluctance to it, nothing wrong with that in my opinion as long as people are pulling their effort; I’ll just go at a more reasonable pace for the group. I only have an issue if someone gets fussy and does the nonsense of grabbing mobs ahead and pulling them back to me without saying anything or getting all passive-aggressive about it. I’ll grab them, but I’m not going to be happy over it since it’s probably stressing one of the other people that asked for a smaller pull.

In the case of leveling dungeons I think it’s better to play it safe depending on what it is. In a month there’s going to be essentially another Bardam’s and in cases like that, I’d rather go slow for the first few times around. I’m not a great tank main to be honest (even after quite a few years of doing it across MMOs), but I’d rather have a run go smoothly rather than be a mess because there’s one person who’s impatient. Obviously if big pulls throughout the whole dungeon are good for the group, then great, I’ll do that and everything is fine. But I feel like being flexible over these things helps more than sticking to a single mindset above all else.

Generally it’s a good idea and a decent thing to let the tank pull at their pace. Some tanks will pull wall to wall, others will take it a mob or two at a time. You dont know what is going on with the other members unless communication happens.

If you as a tank are asked to either pull more or pull less pending your group, have enough self respect and respect for your group to explain your decision. If you are willing to do as they ask tell em sure and give it a whirl. If it goes bad you tried if not then all is good.

Communication is the key part of all of this. Talk to your group and adjust as needed. If after communication people try to force you to pull more than you are comfortable with you have two options. Let them tank it or adapt and grab that aggro as well. After the pull feel free to stop and say something. If you get kicked. You are a tank they either move on without you or they sit around waiting for a new tank to join, and you move on to hopefully groups that better suit your playstyle.