Dark Knight Media Tour Feedback

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

I wonder, is the JP community generally happy about this DRK rework, or are the DRK there discontent as well with certain concerns as we are?

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The show a clear discontent about exactly the same stuff as us, from the new gameplay design with delirium, lack of combos and sinergy/deep of the job to concerns about his lack of self-healing, living dead design and dark mind/missionary only magic reduction.

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Originally Posted by shao32

The show a clear discontent about exactly the same stuff as us, from the new gameplay design with delirium, lack of combos and sinergy/deep of the job to concerns about his lack of self-healing, living dead design and dark mind/missionary only magic reduction.

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Thanks for the input, not to say I'm relieved, but at least the entire community seems to have the same concerns, hopefully they will find a way to make some changes, the sooner being better. But 2 expansions in, we know this is never going to be an over night thing, the best we can do as we have been is voice our concerns and offer constructive solutions and hope they take a glance at them and try to compromise.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Thanks for the input, not to say I'm relieved, but at least the entire community seems to have the same concerns, hopefully they will find a way to make some changes, the sooner being better. But 2 expansions in, we know this is never going to be an over night thing, the best we can do as we have been is voice our concerns and offer constructive solutions and hope they take a glance at them and try to compromise.

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I doubt there will be any shortage of post-launch feedback.
I know personally I will take DRK through lower level content to relearn how it plays as well as get a better assessment of how leveling could feel.

I don't think DRK will feel that bad in Dungeons or during leveling. The higher resource gain on the aoe combo, the combat breaks between pulls (cooldowns cooling down out of combat mp regen) and the lack of need to fit as much as possible into a burst window ( so the ogcd get spread around more, distracting from the 1 combo only, like the class works on live currently) are kinda fixing a lot of problems the rework. I'm also pretty sure, that a lot of people are going to play and enjoy the new DRK, with the class being the poster boy for the expansion, the pretty nice looking animation and ease of play.

Let's face it the people, who are currently speaking out against the DRK rework are a) people who played and liked the HW and/or SB Version of DRK and don't want their main class to lose its identity ( and rightfully so) and b) people who look at how the job is gonna play in a raid setting and then notice how boring and monotone it is going to be. (and obviously a lot of them are both^^) But most people are not like that, they are just going to go by what feels good to play and if you don't care for optimization and don't have an old play style to miss, the new DRK is going to feel pretty good (flashy animations, decent numbers and with spread out ogcd pretty active). Just look at Reddit, people are a lot more positive towards the rework there.

Getting a new generation of DRK mains at the cost of all the veterans is a very questinoable move.

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Originally Posted by Kyni

Let's face it the people, who are currently speaking out against the DRK rework are a) people who played and liked the HW and/or SB Version of DRK and don't want their main class to lose its identity ( and rightfully so) and b) people who look at how the job is gonna play in a raid setting and then notice how boring and monotone it is going to be. (and obviously a lot of them are both^^)

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I sure am a type A person xD

I just quote myself from afew months back:

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Originally Posted by Tint

Yeah, I like to play DRK too and I am a bit worried about the rework.

I like the resource management with Dark Arts and stuff. However, I miss the clear defined strenghts and weaknesses of the job he had in HW. It was fun to play out your strenght against magical bosses and feel super powerfull, but it was even more fun to overcome your weakness against physical bosses and win the fight.
What I liked most was that he had physical only mechanics with Low Blow and Reprisal proccs. It didn't felt like an afterthought, they put care even in the stuff the job was not good at.

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Changes are not good... especially this one for ShB xD

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Originally Posted by shao32

Getting a new generation of DRK mains at the cost of all the veterans is a very questinoable move.

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Pretty sure that wasn't their intent ( at least i hope^^). They kinda did listen to feedback. DA spam was reduced and uncoupled it from the other abilities to remove the double weaving requirement( yeah that turned out great). They gave Drk a burst window like War ( literally). Darkside was turned from a passiv buff to something that needs to be managed (in theory). It's now “easier” to bottom out ( the difficulty in SB was in not over capping) and they gave Drk a thematic raid cd.

The problem is they went much to literal about it and didn't look at why people disliked the things they changed and also what those changes would do to the gameplay. Ironicly one of the major changes they didn't address was Drk needing a second combo finisher to shake up the gcd game at least a little bit.

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Originally Posted by Kyni

Pretty sure that wasn't their intent ( at least i hope^^). They kinda did listen to feedback. DA spam was reduced and uncoupled it from the other abilities to remove the double weaving requirement( yeah that turned out great). They gave Drk a burst window like War ( literally). Darkside was turned from a passiv buff to something that needs to be managed (in theory). It's now “easier” to bottom out ( the difficulty in SB was in not over capping) and they gave Drk a thematic raid cd.

The problem is they went much to literal about it and didn't look at why people disliked the things they changed and also what those changes would do to the gameplay. Ironicly one of the major changes they didn't address was Drk needing a second combo finisher to shake up the gcd game at least a little bit.

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The problem I saw is the selective changes they made, I can't recall see feedback based on what we get, will true ppl complaint about dark arts we repeat in every big and small DRK thread that we want to be more like HW and recover all the weight on the mechanics that become nerfed like darkside and dark arts tactical use.

At the same time I never saw ppl asking for more burst on DRK but we complaint about how WAR burst was a bit broken and how they benefic from the meta, getting inner release with all the 5.0 changes is against of all our feedback, literally they take the route of "they complaint about it we will remove it then" ignoring everything else.

Deliberated or not I consider SE keep ignoring DRK feedback, like if someone look the thread tittle and not looking the inside complete missing the point again and again.

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Originally Posted by Kyni

I'm also pretty sure, that a lot of people are going to play and enjoy the new DRK, with the class being the poster boy for the expansion, the pretty nice looking animation and ease of play.

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The issue is that a lot of people don't actually play jobs right and thus don't understand how they work - I don't mean they don't fully optimize, but straight up fail to utilize job mechanics. For people like this anything will "feel" good, as long as it looks good.

It seems to be SE's go-to strategy for "fixing" jobs tbh, just slap a bunch of flashy effects and people will eat it up. It's easy to see with MCH - they tried to make it more appealing in SB so they added acrobatics to every gcd while actually breaking the gameplay. With SHB again they doubled down on the flash with tools and a mecha and look at how many people suddnely wanna switch to MCH - all the while experienced MCH players already theorycraft it to not just suffer from same gameplay issues as before, but suffer from them even harder.

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Originally Posted by shao32

The problem I saw is the selective changes they made, I can't recall see feedback based on what we get, will true ppl complaint about dark arts we repeat in every big and small DRK thread that we want to be more like HW and recover all the weight on the mechanics that become nerfed like darkside and dark arts tactical use.

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Part of the problem is that a lot of people giving feedback pointed out what they don't like, while failing to realize why it's an issue and not explaining it properly. Look at how many people rejoiced at the removal of DA without even thinking what it really means. SE has a tendency to remove mechanics rather than fix them, but a chunk of community really encourages that.

I've seen a lot of people asking for DA to be replaced with some burst buff like FoF or IR or complain about how DRK has to "work so much more than other tanks for the same results", so it's not so surprising they dumbed it down and made the job play more like WAR. I really wish people were more thoughtful with their feedback honestly.

Although I more wish devs used their "professional experience" to, well, know better.

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Originally Posted by Satarn

Part of the problem is that a lot of people giving feedback pointed out what they don't like, while failing to realize why it's an issue and not explaining it properly. Look at how many people rejoiced at the removal of DA without even thinking what it really means. SE has a tendency to remove mechanics rather than fix them, but a chunk of community really encourages that.

I've seen a lot of people asking for DA to be replaced with some burst buff like FoF or IR or complain about how DRK has to "work so much more than other tanks for the same results", so it's not so surprising they dumbed it down and made the job play more like WAR. I really wish people were more thoughtful with their feedback honestly.

Although I more wish devs used their "professional experience" to, well, know better.

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well yeah i agreed, this changes exist bcs that kind of feedback was made, but at the same time that feedback was never supported, big DRK threads was made by Lyth, Chrono and others giving pretty clear feedback about what we want and the direction of the job should be more like HW, all of then was highly supported by us, so the logic of the rework blow my mind.