I already mentioned earlier in the thread about optimization. Thing is not everyone plays the same way and not everyone tries to do the 100% best optimization (I mean sure it is the goal for a lot of people and a good thing to aim for, but actually being able to execute your rotation perfectly is another thing and fight mechanics sometimes require you to alter the rotation to adjust). People do mess up their rotations sometimes and even if you consolidated some of the combos people still might forget and use the wrong one then you are missing a buff/debuff which MNKs heavily rely on to do good DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
Going by your bolded ones...what if I messed up my rotation and I was missing Dragon Kick debuff, had Twin Snakes buff already on, Demolish is on too. The best choice in this scenario would be to use Dragon Kick > True Strike > Snap Punch, but you've removed it?
I mean take a random fight for example. O3S. Say you are on MNK and you are starting your highest hitting combo Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch, and all your necessary buffs are still on. As you hit Bootshine Hali jumps to do library or sword dance. You adjust to the mechanic and you lose some time on your rotation, but when you are able to hit her again your twin snakes buff is gone so it would be more beneficial to adjust and use Twin Snakes > Snap Punch instead of your original plan of True Strike > Snap Punch.
With the buttons consolidated how do you make this adjustment?
I mean pretending no one needs those combos seems to be farfetched. To me this seems like if you consolidated the combos it would be even more punishing should you mess up which combo you are using since you'll be missing buffs and cannot alter your rotation to somewhat fix it.
When will we get the PVP system for PVE ?
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11-28-2017, 06:20 AMMiste
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11-28-2017, 06:21 AMHyoMinPark
Thinking about this and how it would impact MNK also brings NIN to mind.
Aside from the Mudras, NIN has theee different combo enders:
Spinning Slash > Gust Slash > Aeolian Edge
Spinning Slash > Gust Slash > Shadow Fang
Spinning Slash > Gust Slash > Armor Crush
When you use each is dependent on your timers (Shadow Fang and Huton). Plus you only want to duality Aeolian Edge. These consolidated combos would pose problem for NIN as well. -
11-28-2017, 06:22 AMReynhartI haven't played MNK at high level, but I have no issue casting 2-step ninjutsu between GCD as a NIN. With Riddle Of Fire greatly slowing your attack speed, you don't think you could fit two form shifts here and there ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaer
Something like : Diversion+PB - Snap - Pot - snap - IR+Form Shift - DK, etc... ?
Disclaimer : I don't know if the opener actually starts before PB, so I'm just considering your opener as it is.
I'd say the only problem with this, is kind of visual monotony. For example, as a PLD, you use Fast Blade for your three combos and you use Riot Blade for your two DPS combo. If each combo would use 3 specific skills, you could technically have 9 different WS.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroodingFicus
This shouldn't really be a problem. Generally, when you start a combo, you already know how you'll finish it. Besides, by having three separate combo, you could potentially adjust the second WS of one of the combo so that you could have an easier time maintaining one of the effect, without requiring an additional slot. You could even make one of the combo only two steps, since it would still require proper planning by preventing last minute switch.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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11-28-2017, 06:27 AMLunaTsukihimeThat's why I was suggesting the do-it-yourself combo slots, put spinning and gust in there and keep the finishers separate, one slot saved.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
If someone wants to put more he can,if someone didn't want it all, he can.
Please, don't assume I'm trying to neuter any class with my suggestion. -
11-28-2017, 06:30 AMVaerFull opener reference here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
Pot is used to line up with all the other buffs same with IR/RoF. You could probably move diversion up if you wanted but you would end up triple weaving where a double is already pretty tough if you aren't close to the server. The beginning mostly doesn't have anything because the double snap lets you hit GL3 with the demolish at the beginning so you have the damage bonus before you pop everything else. Kick for blunt dmg and snakes for damage buff then the rest of the stuff with the pot on with the rest of the party utility.
Obv you could just do another opener but your suggestions would probably change how this opener would look for sure.
DRG has the least to lose since their combo is pretty static so it would work well for them. Some of the other jobs have some psuedo branching combos where it wouldn't reduce the buttons by as much as it would for DRG.
I mean they could change the rest of the jobs that could benefit from this change and leave MNK as is but I personally don't think that would be fair. -
11-28-2017, 06:57 AMAnemone_Valestihttp://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...psyawum8he.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
- If you miss, it doesnt change but it would mean you actually have to pay attention to your skills or notice the miss ( Which shouldn't happen unless you are under level I think or if the boss deck u with a loss of accuracy skill lol ).
- Something would have to be done with perfect balance
- tad medicated, so this is as far as I go lol.
Im not on either sides of this, just here to help clarify some things ( Specifically regarding MNK since the uses of the skills...well the skills themselves are directly tied into the stances )
(Note: Apparently the Gif works in Preview post, but when posting it...it doesnt...unless its just me lol)
(Note 2: Derp I didnt loop the Gif lol. My Baaaaaaaaaad xD) -
11-28-2017, 07:05 AMalimdia
Why not remove combos while we're at it? press shadow fang and dot applies, press armor break and huton is extended. I mean, according some people here there's no skill in pressing buttons, so why are pressing them at all? Let's take it to the extreme. Oh and remove mudra combinations too.
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11-28-2017, 07:06 AMReynhartYes, this is what I mean. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anemone_Valesti
Because there is skill in planning and ordering skills...not buttons.Quote:
Originally Posted by alimdia
As I said, and as Miste could find it acceptable, those kind of changes would probably be tied to the release of a new expansion, so the opener would have to include all the new tweaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaer
NIN would only lose 2 slots at best, but, again, it could gain 4 "new" low level skills while requiring only 3 slots total.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaer
Spinning Edge -> Gust Slash -> Aeolian Edge
New opener 1 -> New follower 1 -> Shadow Fang
New opener 2 -> New follower 2 -> Armor Crusher
More skills = easier precise adjustement to potencies.
Besides, in ARR, the longest combo contained 3 steps. In HW, DRG increased it to 4, and to 5 in SB. We might see other jobs having 4-step combo in the next expansion, with no new slot required. -
11-28-2017, 07:16 AMFerth
It should be optional, it shouldn't be useable until at least level 30, and probably level 50 just for good measure, and we should be allowed to customize our combos.
It would be pretty easy to implement a UI function similar to what is already visible in the pvp profile, but let us populate which weaponskills and in which order we want, then let us place the combo buttons where we want as well. Furthermore they can limit it to 2 combo buttons in general. For most physical dps classes that would be more than enough to reduce 6-8 keybinds down to 2 or 3.
You would still be allowed to place all of your weapon skills on the bar, even with the combo buttons (which sort of addresses monk/perfect balance.)
The biggest problem I see here is none of the ranged/caster dps classes have straightforward combos so this wouldn't really help them out. Which isn't a problem so much as it creates another problem for those classes.
I would absolutely love this for all of my tanks and my dragoon. But it would do literally nothing for my black mage. -
11-28-2017, 07:27 AMReynhartCasters already received something similar with higher tier replacing lower ones. You no longer need 3 slots for Thunder, Ruin and Stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferth
Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't fuse Blizzard and Blizzaga...and Fire and Firaga (With an adjustement to Firestarter)