Dam. meter

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Originally Posted by Llan

Welp then that's your problem isn't it? If you're talking about Raid content with PF groups you should scout for better people.
As I said any other content can be cleared with a hand tied behind your back while eating Ramen with your elbow. No need for a parser. Sometimes it might be a little bit challenging or slower than normal because someone is new or it's their first 60.

Thank the gods we have raid groups for casual people that have patience to learn and teach as they move forward together.
Some people don't care about being World's First.

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It's not about being the world's first, its about respect. If you're going into content not to actually be part of the team but to pay your taxes, watch a show, haggle over comcast prices, and get a free ride then you shouldn't have joined in the first place. I have no care if people are new or old, its about if you're trying or not. If you don't want to play the game then don't play... Try != expecting perfection, just means actually playing and not giving the game 5% of your attention. (The above is not arguing about parsers, just in a general sense about actually trying).

Patience for learning groups is not in anyway similar to letting people not try because they just have better things to do while you play for them. On an aside though even in top tier guilds the parser usually takes a back burner while people learn, mastering the mechanics comes first since your parser can get in the way of how you're supposed to address the content if you think of it first (so.. when learning people should avoid using the parser until they've learned the mechanics, if the mechanic is damage then of course that's different lol).

Also I was talking about all content, DF/RF/W.E. Unless the content was formed with that player in mind like your FC is just dragging you along for the free clears because they can, do whatever you want then - like whatever lol.

How come people always assume the damage meter has to show other people's damage? I'd like my own personal damage meter because im on PS4 and I can't improve if I can't see numbers!

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Originally Posted by Shougun

It's not about being the world's first, its about respect. If you're going into content...

Patience for learning groups is not in anyway similar to letting people not try because they just have better things to do...

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Sure, and you mean to tell me that a parser would allow you to know if they are trying or not based solely on their DPS numbers?
That's exactly why we don't need parsers. What for? To create arbitrary reasons to kick people and make people sad or mad during content that was supposed to be fun?
As a main Tank I come across 1 or maybe 2 very low DPS people a day. And it's not like they ruin the run for me at all.

What ruins things are people that don't want to learn/hear explanations and/or are toxic.

You might not harass players because of parse #s but there are plenty that will and I refuse to accept something like that.

As far as I was seeing it, SE customer support was and is still quite efficient and swift when it comes to getting down on people which were bullying/harassing others about their DPS when meters were mentioned.

That said, what would change if SE adds their own official meter to the game, when the actions and procedures of said customer support about meter bullying/harassment will remain the same as now?

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Parsers have never been needed. From the minute they hit WOW and became the norm guilds started booting players left and right. Nevermind we were already clearing the content. I've seen people even get booted even when they met the dps cutoffs because they had less dps than everyone else. The stone sky and sea is all we need. Just make it so that you have to pass that check to enter a raid as dps and boom there ya go.

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And how does SSS teach people optimal rotations? Most get theirs from others that have used a parser to figure that out.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

As far as I was seeing it, SE customer support was and is still quite efficient and swift when it comes to getting down on people which were bullying/harassing others about their DPS when meters were mentioned.

That said, what would change if SE adds their own official meter to the game, when the actions and procedures of said customer support about meter bullying/harassment will remain the same as now?

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While it's a third party parser, not everyone will know/use it, so the number of complaints over DPS numbers are low. As soon as you bring this into the game and everyone starts to use it the number will increase exponentially thus making such great customer support not so great anymore.

We already have a third party parser that people use if they want to and it's fine. As I said before, if people want to use it during their static or PF runs, go right ahead. Just don't drag the entire game into the DPS meter black hole of douchebagness.

@Orbiaus

You can practice rotations without a parser and when you're able to optimize your rotation usually you'll see that you're not chocking with cool downs. It's a matter of experimenting and it's a very fun part of the game. People may use parsers to minmax numbers but figuring out a good rotation will already let you clear content so why worry about it.

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Originally Posted by Llan

Sure, and you mean to tell me that a parser would allow you to know if they are trying or not based solely on their DPS numbers?

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If it's really bad yeah lol. Thats why I've been saying near afk levels (as you're right at a point it will become difficult to tell), since it might be hard to tell the difference between a pro who memorized rotations but is barely paying attention and a new person who is paying attention but hanging on by their fingertips. Someone who just presses one over and over is going to have near "I'm not even here" levels and should be noticeable though, certain parser tools would even let you know if it was just one button or not XD.

Someone who is just playing poorly I might give a tip to or not, depending on if I know the issue and by how much (like if someone seems chipper with a good hello in the beginning but I notice they're using bane before their dots in PotD I'll explain that you dot then bane, only really mentioning core mechanics).

I also don't parse in FFXIV because I'm far more care free than I was in WoW lol, although I did look up some tank guides to make sure I've got the right premises (I'm also aware however that the people that made the guides used parser knowledge to develop the craft they shared). Mostly I just take up these conversations because I don't agree that they're all purely negative tools, that using the information doesn't automatically constitute harassment, that I don't believe there is (or at least was) that big a difference in the WoW and FFXIV community (I haven't played in two years, minus messing around on a friend's account). Or that because of SE's weird stance on it that I think the negatives that people may fear they already do actually feel but just from the shadows rather than in clarity (since SE has basically already half allowed it with their dont ask dont tell policy, Yoshida having even watched raid groups that have it up on screen and there is no punishment).

The meta adjustments already seep through, and the discords and groups already use it from the shadows. I feel we could make some sort of thriller youtube video on it.. "in the darkness of night.. under guise of discord the parsers come out.. secretly judging you and kicking you for "difference in play style" *queue screams*" lol.

I do however respect people's concern that it will make the community worse, I mean as I said I'm not certain it will and disagree on some elements (to me the issues are not the tools but the people, if there is a problem you do something about the people rather than the tool like "video games make murders" we all know thats lazy talk - go to the parent instead). I see about 1 or 2 people in the raids that are pretty much afk, but in smaller groups I generally have less issues so I would agree with your perspective as well (on player issues), but I also don't parse so I have no idea if I'm just not paying attention to all 24 people or not lol.

I do agree that people will see harassment /with/ parser as part of the bludgeon but I generally, again as said before, think you'd be bludgeoned anyways just with something else - the tool not making people more rude/intolerant/aggressive than they already were (I also like the idea that at least what I'm being beat up with might have some information I can learn from rather than useless shadow vague garble lol).

"game breaking " lol , well the game is still running without one :P and i can kill mobs without it to and heal to , so no it works fine :P ^^

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Originally Posted by Llan

will already let you clear content so why worry about it.

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Sorry for the awkward snip, but this highlights the issue perfectly.

All you care about is getting the clear. That's cool. All you want is the minimum. But, you should "worry about it" for the sake of your team.

We are a team when we are doing content together. That means that we need to work together and all play our best. You wouldn't tolerate someone half-assing it in any other team activity, so why should a video game be different?

Yoshi will add something to help player to know their DPS, maybe a very light version of a parser, or something else.