When would you take DRK over PLD or WAR?

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

If WAR has more burst, then what the hell does DRK have? Because it's certainly not sustained DPS, we don't have the TP management for that.

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Ogcds. I think in real fights their gap closer should help them parse better too when used intelligently.

Really I think a small change that would help drk parse better and make them feel a little more fun and unique would be to make unmend not interrupt combos. That way any time you had to dodge you could unmend + gap close to help sustained dps.

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Originally Posted by ArdorGrey

Ogcds. I think in real fights their gap closer should help them parse better too when used intelligently.

Really I think a small change that would help drk parse better and make them feel a little more fun and unique would be to make unmend not interrupt combos. That way any time you had to dodge you could unmend + gap close to help sustained dps.

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Sort of on that note, I actually really like how we can use unmend if we're out of TP to sustain some damage. Use our mana to keep DPSing while we wait for TP to regen. It feels different from existing TP management other classes use, which is pretty much just to hit the "give me back TP" button.

However the problem is unmend is too weak for this. Even though it is the best thing we can do when we're out of TP (unmend and/or free unleash while we wait for TP to regen), our DPS drop heavily when we have to resort to this. It would be nice if we had some other GCD move that only cost mana and did better damage (200 or so range), such that we could use it as part of our normal rotation with much less loss to our DPS, then I think we'd be ok. It would be even better if this was something that would apply a useful debuff effect, to provide some much needed additional utility.

Another person posted in a thread a while back suggesting that Abyssal Drain's Dark Arts effect moved over to Unleash, and AD be changed to a powerful single target MP-based ability to be used inbetween combos to save on TP costs. It would definitely be a positive change, both in terms of balance and quality of life, seeing as Abyssal Drain and Unleash are pretty much the same skill right now.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Yea there's so many factors to consider when it comes to comparing tank DPS - just what instance you're rolling makes a difference..

Really so far we can only just provide anecdotes. So here's one:

Ran the Vault as DRG. Others were WAR, SMN, WHM.

That WAR out dps'd the SMN almost everywhere - trash mobs and bosses. There was only 1 boss where the SMN beat the WAR. It wasn't like the SMN was bad. It was a 20min run - very fast. So DPS was solid from everyone - but that WAR was clearly bringing a level of pain I couldn't replicate as a DRK - or WAR - for that matter. His damage contributions were making a significant impact on the speed of the run. Wish I had it on video record or had the chance to requeue with him to analyze it more

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No job in the game, except perhaps a BLM due to sustainability, should be able to out DPS a SMN on trash mobs at that level and above. This also probably indicates why he was getting out dps'ed on bosses. I'm not arguing that the WAR wasn't awesome, but that I just don't see the credibility of this example due to these results.

This has turned into a war vs drk dps thread. (Atleast within the past page and a half) I see people echoing "drks have tp issues". When is the happening for you? Im usually comcerned with which rotation i can use based on my mp and which D buff to use when. Ive never once thought of my tp because its just always there. Many fights have lulls for mechanic transitions and such so i dont see where this happenning.

Maybe ill just whack a training dummy and see how long it takes me to run out. Even then, that type of constant stand still ability spam rarely happens in practice.

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Originally Posted by Bustaperizm

This has turned into a war vs drk dps thread. (Atleast within the past page and a half) I see people echoing "drks have tp issues". When is the happening for you? Im usually comcerned with which rotation i can use based on my mp and which D buff to use when. Ive never once thought of my tp because its just always there. Many fights have lulls for mechanic transitions and such so i dont see where this happenning.

Maybe ill just whack a training dummy and see how long it takes me to run out. Even then, that type of constant stand still ability spam rarely happens in practice.

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A Drk's TP lasts roughly 2 minutes depending on your SS, and how active your uptime is with both your skills and Blood Weapon.

There are a couple (More like a crap ton) of fights you can easily burn your TP on right now. A1, A2, A3, A4, BisEX.

T1, T2 (Rot passing could maybe have helped TP), T4, T5, T6, T7, T8 especially, T9 phase 1 to final golems, and then heavensfall to the end. T10, T11 especially. T12, T13 if you're MT or aren't targeted a lot by earthshaker as OT. The add phase may help, but then after teraflare, you're back to burning your TP. Only exception would be if you create distance for the tether by running away from bahamut.

Fights that have you constantly hitting something is a hell of a lot more common than people put it out to be. Dunno why people act as if Ravana is the example of all raid content, when Ravana is literally THE exception.

Anything a War could run out of TP on before Heavensward, a Drk will run out even faster. People create downtime for themselves, hence why some don't feel they have TP management issues. But by doing that, you aren't at 100% uptime, and your DPS is probably not very high seeing as for a Drk to hold high numbers, you have to be going in crazy hard.

When the person who's playing tank wants to be one. If they are good enough it won't matter which tank they pick. Personally as a raid leader so long as it wasn't two drks I wouldn't care. I would however be more inclined to push for a dark knight if there wasn't a monk in the group to get the int debuff. But honestly the jobs in this game are homogenized enough that it really doesn't make a difference and at this point drks seem to make up 60% of the end game tanking population and I've cleared loads of content with them. If your team is failing because of the tank job your tank is running there is probably a bigger issue.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

However the problem is unmend is too weak for this. Even though it is the best thing we can do when we're out of TP (unmend and/or free unleash while we wait for TP to regen), our DPS drop heavily when we have to resort to this.

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Unmend is 150 potency (which is better than Paladins or Warriors with 120 potency TP using attacks). It basically replaces an attack that does 170 damage and can proc a free unleash. That is a respectable attack that is NOT costing you any tp and allowing you to recover tp while its being used! Not sure what you want, for something that with even basic mana management is basically free?

Lets be clear--a paladin that is MTing has no tp regen. Shield swipe is a damage decrease, messes with our rotations and only receovers 10 tp per use. As an OT, we are in the same situation as dark knights(and have been for all of 2.0---and somehow made it through WITHOUT ninja's and goads until the very end of it!).

Frankly, you guys are used to whatever dps classes you came from with invigorates, or comparing yourselves to warrior OT's who have great tp management. As a Paladin who spends 120 TP per stun, and has far far fewer 'free' attacks that are also OGCD than a DRK, I will say--man the heck up! It is not that hard to throw a pause in here or there, and use unmend if your tp is getting that low!

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Originally Posted by Ditto

Anything a War could run out of TP on before Heavensward, a Drk will run out even faster. People create downtime for themselves, hence why some don't feel they have TP management issues. But by doing that, you aren't at 100% uptime, and your DPS is probably not very high seeing as for a Drk to hold high numbers, you have to be going in crazy hard.

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There are 3 tanks in the game.

You keep comparing yourself to one of them. Paladins make due and have no real source of tp regen. They also cannot weave in unmend for some continued offense or anything of the sort. You seem hung up on being great off tanks--re roll as a warrior. They excel at it. A dark knight is not as good as a war--but you parse higher than paladins do at the moment, so that is a choice you make.

Not every class (certainly tanks) get tp management. Get used to asking for goad and bards like paladins have been since the dawn of time (or in one case--the dawn of ninjas!).

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Originally Posted by Ditto

There are a couple (More like a crap ton) of fights you can easily burn your TP on right now. A1, A2, A3, A4, BisEX..

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I want to know what im doing wrong cause I've tanked these and never once thought of my tp. Ive seen that dps drk vid. He didnt run out of tp for like 2 mins with constant skill spam. Which includes stuns and blood weapon that increases skill speed that we cant use in grit. So are we strictly talking pure dps OTs here?