We're going to make the game a bit more tolerable for melee DPS

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Originally Posted by Makado

Wicked Wheel places a target on the tank when its getting ready (crosshair thing) I believe, I noticed it last night.

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In the intermediate phase, the first WW comes after Garuda uses Friction. Second WW comes after Garuda's Downburst (Slipstream -> Downburst -> WW). Third is immediately after Slipstream and only shows up if your DPS is so low that you're pretty much hosed anyway. In the tornado phase, the WW comes right after Suparna's Slipstream. Everything follows a script, so it's seriously just rote business getting it down.

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Originally Posted by Simurgi

This is doing the Kill Surprana only strat as well where the melee are standing right on top of Garuda and Surprana.

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Interesting way to do it, thanks.

I think there are currently a few ways to play Garuda EX depending on the capability of your MT. I've been hearing from various skilled MT that they can either dodge the WW perfectly or they just man it up and eat the double WW but without dying.

Nonetheless if your MT isn't that confident nor capable but if you have a capable team of DPS (in a non all ranged setting), maybe you can try this. I've done this with a JP DF group and we one-shot it easily.

I was BRD, we had one melee. During tornado phase, MT takes Garuda, OT takes Suparna. I pop my offensive CDs and burst on Chirada so I'm the hate holder. I'm already positioned at 7 so I can just pull Chirada easily rather than a DRG/MNK to attack and craw over while other DPS has to self-control and hold DPS. All 4 DPS with 1 healer was on my side at 7 o clock.

The reason why I tanked instead of DRG tanking is because it would be a waste for DRG to tank as he cannot flank and backstab. BRD doesn't do too bad in tanking. We only ate the slipstream which wasn't a problem because the other healer that is not with us at 7 o clock casts Cure III on us to top us back. We killed Chirada soon after and did not eat any other major damage other than that slipstream.

It was way better than other times when DRG was the DPS tanking. It would be plain horrible or DPS is really slow because the poor DRG isn't doing his proper rotation.

What most of you forgot/misrode was that the original complain was not "Melee does too few damages" or "It's impossible to play a melee" but : SE is having a hard time putting fairness in encounters. In most battles when I read/hear the strategy and begin to experience the fight my first reaction is always "Why the hell am I melee with tons of constraints while I could be sitting as a ranged in the middle and move twice in the battle?". You can be melee and have to have high chances to be cleaved, aoed, not allowed to reach a target or be distant and move once every minute because there's an aoe that was finally launched (I know I'm exagerating it, but most should get the point).
For those who love difficulty above anything else melee will fit you, and I understand and respect that. The problem appears for those who love their class (DRG in my case) but have a hard time accepting that 9 encounters out of 10 are designed to give a hell to melee while ranged don't have to sweat much to stay alive.
So the answer : "Then just go playing a ranged and stop meleeing, you're a bad player anyway!" isn't acceptable. I do love DRG, it's the unfairness of encounters that are frustrating me. I like a game being hard (coming from WoW I would find FF14 a bit too much easy and lacking super hard end bosses that retains a serious guild for downing them for a week or more), but i like it to be as fair as it can and not being one same role screwed 90% of the time.

If you look through this thread most answers will be : "Because you're doing it wrong, if you do this then that, then this when there is that happening or that when this is happening, then that guy does that and then this etc. you'll be allright!". When did you had to put something like that for ranged? Maybe 2 battles on the game?
I admit that TitanX is nicely designed for that: everyone got the same job and difficulties along the encounter, and I appreciate that battle for that.

As a tank, I salute you melee DPS. You're doing the hardest job here.

Individually, the balance isn't an issue. As a party comp, it definitely is. That's what bothers me.

So many fights have to compensate for a melee player in some way. It's not an issue if it's one. When it's 2, then we've got more problems.

Dragoon and BLM fill a similar niche, burst + good aoe.
Similarly, Summoner and Monk are strong single sustained with ramp up. (not that smn is bad at aoe or anything)

As such, with four slots....one of those pairs should be able to replace the other.
My static has a DRG and I play a MNK most of the time. We have a SMN and BRD otherwise.
We can do many things with this comp. But I also play a BLM and in many cases it makes it much easier to do that.

The DRG should be filling in the BLM spot, but it really doesn't.

If we do Ifrit EX with 2 melee, the healers swap. It's not a big deal but it's like we just added an extra mechanic they wouldn't need to care about otherwise.
If we do Garuda EX with 2 melee, well you've heard the complaints. I only think it's bad with 2 melee though. Also with none, tanks have much more freedom of movement in their sections.
If we do Turn 2 with 2 melee, someone has to ferry the rot (if you take the left side, which we do....and don't use the enrage method). Really?
We haven't even tried Turn 4 earnestly with 2 melee and a bard. However, I understand this case simply because the division is physical and magic damage. No real complaint there.

We are not class stacking anymore than having 2 different casters is. Why do melee have to inconvenience other people by existing in the comp?
The single target LB should never be an excuse. Caster LB is great for a lot of situations, but they never have to make-up for its viability.

The token melee is usually fine, but why do we have to be token? Any Comp that does not stack classes should not be less viable unless the division is physical and magic (which is only T4).
1 BRD, 2 casters, 1 melee =/= 1 BRD, 1 caster, 2 melee
But it should be equal.

The only meaningful "the fight is harder" is with turn 2 ADS where the melee have fun moving the rot around. Even that is obviated by the stack method (although that method has other impacts so I wouldn't recommend it).


For everything else, the difference is negligible, although stacking melee on T5 is going to be rough on Twister phase. Range-stacking Ifrit EX removes the howling mechanic, but /shrug. The fight isn't too difficult with the mechanic, and the # of melee don't make a difference.

In addition, if the group wants to use the "range stack south" approach on Ifrit EX, that is also possible with 1 melee -- the melee can spread DPS and tab DoT all the nails south and on the opposite side of the howled healer. They will contribute normal DPS to the nail phase and the nails will die in a normal staggered fashion. No big deal.

Garuda EX is pretty easy if the melee are competent. They can simply eat the WW straight on with defensive cooldowns. Pretty trivial to 4x melee that fight. If I can sell Garuda EX with 2 melee and 1 range DPS, any group can sure as hell do Garuda EX normally with 4 melee. Tbh the tanks don't need to pay too much attention -- the melee just need to pay attention to the cleave areas and the WW timing.

It would be great if everyone found it as easy as you but, unfortunately, difficulty is subjective. Many people struggle with the existing mechanics as is without adding a new one to accomodate a melee or two. It's easy to say to them "get better" but the majority will just pick an easier route. Which usually involves bringing less melee. Not for all fights but for a fair amount.

With a random group of 8 there's a fair chance that one of the following is true in a Garuda Ex fight:
A. The tanks will struggle to swap spiny for the sister in the tornado phase or to stabilize Garuda in the corner so WW is dodgable.
B. The healers will struggle to keep a DPS alive when he suddenly drops to 500 health after eating a WW with cooldowns.
C. The melees will struggle to live through WW.

So for many players, they just find the path of least resistance which is oftentimes to take less or no melee.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Most DRGs should outperform most MNKs on most fights.

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I have to agree with this. At least on any fight that is mechanic heavy.

I play with a drg sometimes and I beat him on any fight where I am free to pound on boss with little to no offtime. Now on fights like Garuda EX and Titan EX he beats me. Not by a lot but I just can't keep up on those fights. Garuda its the added danger for wicked wheel on me. Even with cooldowns it can shot me where he can take one to the face with cooldowns. Titan EX I am not really sure exactly what it is that allows him to pull ahead but I am assuming its because for the second half of the fight I am more likely to lose positional bonuses.

I have been tempted to finish gearing up my Drg so I can switch depending on the fights. I don't play drg enough to know how good they are at keeping themselves alive.. I know playing bard I feel really week compared to monk.

I run Garuda as brd now. Gear isn't as good but I make the fight easier on everyone that way. Titan I go monk cause why not? Ifrit I do as melee and the only issues I have had is ranged running to fast and healers just not watching what they are doing. Tanking is more fun on ifrit than dpsing though so yeah...