"In-Progress" queue fishing has to stop

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Originally Posted by Doo

How do you make necessary grind/farming fun?

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Put things for tanks to tank.

I mean, the only time I get to tank in CT is on Thanatos adds, everything else is solo tankable. And won't even get started on Behemoth... clicking the towers... lol.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...86#post1784586

Like it, get it asked. Stick it in the OP too.

Fragmenting the queue is bad for the overall health of the game. Supporting players that want to skip content is also the last thing that should ever be done in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

Put things for tanks to tank.

I mean, the only time I get to tank in CT is on Thanatos adds, everything else is solo tankable. And won't even get started on Behemoth... clicking the towers... lol.

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I don't think tanks are the only roles that find CT boring to farm and knowing S.E if tanking was more complicated it would be in the form of something like TANK SWAPS.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

It's really saddening to see that we can't simply be decent human beings, play the game, think about others. No, no reward and everyone else can die in a gutter. Apparently we need incentives to help people.

Duty Roulette was invented as a means for newbie to get help running dungeons, since nobody does those dungeons and they need it for story dungeons. No reward = let the newbies rot in a corner. This is bad enough in Main Scenario, where people go in, heckle others to skip cutscenes, simply because they want their reward.

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Your example is perfect. If the player community was really so willing to help other players without being encouraged by an incentive, then we wouldn't have needed the duty roulette in the first place. We'd see experienced players clicking on each of the lower level dungeons manually and jumping in to the queue without the duty roulette bonus.

Obviously, that didn't happen. And it wouldn't happen, because people simply aren't altruistic.

Do I wish that we didn't need incentives for people to be nice to each other? Of course.

Do I think selfishness will disappear if we just sit down and wish it away? Not a chance.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Yes, throw the newbies under the bus. Throw the unfortunate players who decided that their life calling was to play DPS under the bus.

So apparently, you have the freedom of action to fish for queues, but other people don't have the freedom of action to play a class they want? Contradictory much?

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I don't think you're understanding my post at all.

There is no such thing as a "life calling" to play DPS. Players weren't born with an orientation towards playing the DPS roles. Players make a conscious decision to play something that they know (or soon realize while leveling up) is an over-popular and undesired role for party content (i.e. a vast majority of this game.

I never said you do not have the "freedom of action" to play DPS. Of course you can.

I only object to the idea that the problems shared by DPS players (long queues and being victims of fishers) is the net result of their own choice to play DPS, and no other reason. The nature of their collective existence is what produces these so-called "problems" they encounter.

Players in these roles do not have the right to have their complaints addressed when the problem is created by them and can only be solved by themselves.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

It is the optimal, best-case-scenario for ONE in 4/8/24 other players. Unless you can show it's beneficial to all party members, which it is clearly not, otherwise such threads wouldn't exist - instead, you'd see more threads praising the fishers. Keep in mind that there's a larger number of fresh queues, compared to in-progress.

DPS queues are such because of the bigger number of players playing DPS compared to tank or healer, but ultimately tanks fishing for queues, do not solve this problem, they make it worse. It is bad enough as is, separate queues is a step backwards.

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Having players join in-progress parties that are the furthest progressed in a dungeon is the best-case solution. It benefits one player greatly because they can skip the previous content, and the rest of the alliance because they very likely need to fill out their party. I'm sure you've been in a situation where you're standing around waiting to begin at the entrance of Behemoth, Acheron, etc waiting for the last tank or healer to join in. How is it possibly not beneficial to everyone to prioritize this 2/4 or 3/4 progress alliance to the top of the queue, and for fishers to actively seek those alliances?

Fishers are absolutely in the right here, because they are needed the most by parties who are hung up waiting to fill up their alliance.

There is no problem in the system. The only "problem" is the complaining by players who are frustrated by clicking on commence duty and having others withdraw. Again, read my previous post to see how this is a problem generated by the imbalance of roles and the active choice of individuals to play undesired roles.

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Originally Posted by Thebob89

This is just a suggestion, but in the case of fishers jumping in just to lay hands on the end game loot, why not just cripple the rewards for completion. That would eliminate the folks just jumping in for the swag. The only drag up would be the fact that a crippled group would be less likely for someone to jump in.

There is no good solution to the issues that I can see. But I am new to the who's mmo deal, so there isn't much stock in my opinion.

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even though you say you are new to mmo's this is the best suggestion i've seen in this entire thread. just cripple the rewards the fisher get depending on how far into the dungeon you are. if you queue into a party that's on the second boss and you are able to engage and help defeat the second and third boss you only get 2/3 of the normal rewards. say with wp you get 30 myth for beating all 3, but if you join and fight pudding and king you'd get 20 tomes on completion. i just don't think the idea of giving the full reward for joining on the final boss of an entire dungeon leads to a cohesive community.

your idea seems to be the most efficient i've seen to combat the current issue.

I did not read all of the replies, so if someone already said this please disregard, but I would suggest that instead of doing this... just seperate the queues so people who want to join in-progress ONLY get prompted when an instance in-progress pops, so they don't have to keep declining the ones that are just starting.

Problem solved, and everyone gets what they want.

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

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You know what? Those groups will still get filled up with or without you being able to see if its in progress and without a dedicated queue. If you don't like it stick to Party Finder or learn to cooperate with your fellow players that are just so insufferable you can't bear being in a full run with. The game isn't going to bend over for you because you want a shortcut.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

You know what? Those groups will still get filled up with or without you being able to see if its in progress and without a dedicated queue. If you don't like it stick to Party Finder or learn to cooperate with your fellow players that are just so insufferable you can't bear being in a full run with. The game isn't going to bend over for you because you want a shortcut.

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Exactly lol. Queue fishers acting like they are doing some noble deed when all they are trying to do is cheat the system. Make it blind queue so it would be a luck factor whether you get a chance at faster farming or not while helping others in the process.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

You know what? Those groups will still get filled up with or without you being able to see if its in progress and without a dedicated queue. If you don't like it stick to Party Finder or learn to cooperate with your fellow players that are just so insufferable you can't bear being in a full run with. The game isn't going to bend over for you because you want a shortcut.

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I don't understand why you would not only want to take away shortcuts for players who are playing desired roles, but asking players who are selfish to abandon the duty finder.

If we are so incensed about the problem of queue fishing and long queues in general, why would we want to marginalize players who are in it for the loot (i.e. the vast majority of players)? Are we really so convinced, despite the overwhelming evidence not only in this game but other MMOs, that players are really willing to help out just for the sake of helping out?

I can't tell if you're incredibly short-sighted or just completely ignorant of the reality: either you need to cater ("bend over") for players in desired roles, or greatly discourage people from imbalancing the role make-up (punishing DPS).

We can't have our cake (have everyone play DPS) and eat it too (expect everything to work smoothly for DPS and punish non-DPS for expecting incentives).

This is ultimately what it boils down to. Stop blaming queue fishers for trying to reap a benefit they deserve. If you want queue fishing to stop, either stop playing DPS or start playing tanks and healers.

if the window pops up then you withdraw should be 5 min wait to queue again.