Lessons from PvP to improve PvE

I love how PvP in FFXIV turns to be actually good and engaging.. there is a reason for it to this way and here I would like to express them:

1- in PvP Jobs have risk and reward you sacrifice resources to do X2 instead of X.
2- in PvP Jobs doesn't need to have strict rotations to be "fun"
3- in PvP Each skill or spell is impactful and have reason to be in their kit
4- in PvP Not every job is the same, in PvE healers and tanks can be 2 jobs with 4 different builds instead of 8 jobs.
5- Holy trinity exist but in an engaging way (less stress to healer and more personal responsibility to DPS an Tanks)

DPS should care about them selves at least 50%
Healer should be engaging jobs
Tanks should have to manage their HP at least 50%

Make Healing And Mitigation Is A Group Responsibility
Healers Can Do 50% But Not All Blame On Their Back


6- Simplification and accessibility can exist if the gameplay is fun.

issues with the current system is there is not a single one of mentioned above,
some game have skill rotation but rotation will behave differently based on builds and gear and this also is a dead system in FFXIV PvE.

in the end I know that not all PvP jobs hit the nail but most of them done correctly with good principles in mind

I feel like to change jobs to be more like they are in PvP would also be to fundamentally change encounter design

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AddictedToWitches

I feel like to change jobs to be more like they are in PvP would also be to fundamentally change encounter design

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I agree,

Just make it less scripted, not all encounters need to be scripted, create hidden phases if X done.
make jobs comb exist..

let boss have scripted phases not everything

Example:
Dancer and monk will gain extra buff if they exist in 1 party
Dark Knight and Reaper
Sage and Machinist
Paladin and White mage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tunda

2- in PvP Jobs doesn't need to have strict rotations to be "fun"

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You can't have a rotation in PvP because the enemy isn't going to sit there and wait for you to finish a combo. In PvP a "Tank" can't hold a player. In PvP everyone is going to kill the healer first. PvP is a strictly "all players are DPS" design by design because it doesn't function otherwise. Players do not telegraph what they are going to do, they have no predictable skills outside of meta's people decide is the perfect role to play.

Short answer is: no, and I'm someone who enjoy PvPing.


Long answer: you seem to miss the whole point of them separating the 2 modes to begin with (which has not always been the case). It was a smart decision to split them into separated developing track, and I have yet to see ANY mmo that doesn't do this worked out. I don't know how WoW is these days because I quitted a long time ago, back I remember back than every patch is a constant b**** war between PvP and PvE about whose side the grass is greener, and how balance in one mode was wrecking the other mode.

Also PvP is about being spontaneous which is inherently chaos, PvE is about optimizations that would be destroyed by chaos

Quote:

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not all encounters need to be scripted, create hidden phases if X done.
make jobs comb exist..

let boss have scripted phases not everything

Example:
Dancer and monk will gain extra buff if they exist in 1 party
Dark Knight and Reaper
Sage and Machinist
Paladin and White mage

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Please god no. Meta comb already exists accidentally from time to time due to balance issue, and each time it's ugly. I also from time to time see drama in PF because people insist being in g1 and g2 due to familiarity. You can make these things happen intentionally ... if your intention is to make the game more toxic.

I'm not even reading the body of your idea, the title alone is enough for me to say; absolutely not.

Pvp skills are fun but I can't imagine using them on the glorified dummies that are pve enemies.

I'd rather have less buttons I can use more often and have meaningful interactions then the current state of things where half your kit is gated behind 30 to two minute CDs that have no nuance in their use past dumping them while under buffs.

PvP basically accomplishes that while also making the jobs feel more distinct to play, so if they could translate those elements into PvE properly then I'd be all for it.

Maybe if PvE was as chaotic as PvP can be.
There's sadly no room for PvP jobs in FFXIV current PvE system. It's too slow and too organized.
PvP feels more impactful and the skills more meaningful because every decision could mean life or death, combat in PvE doesn't.

But if PvE was more chaotic and random as PvP can be the majority of the playerbase would lose their sh*t.