Unconditional 12% Movement Speed

[Arcon]

Please for the love of Altana improve the drop rate on Wyrmal Abjuration: Legs.

As was mentioned before, one round of trigger NMs will net you eight Kirin pops. The drop rate is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. Your LS must have had the most horrible luck I've ever seen if it took you years to get the first Cuisses (or you only did it twice in those years). Wiki states a ~25% drop rate with a very high sample, my personal experience has it a lot higher still. Over years of doing sky, we got about ~40% Wyrmal Abjuration drops off Kirin. Now, even if you go by Wiki's lower estimate, with eight Kirin pops from one round of trigger NMs, you'll get an average of two Wyrmal Abjurations from one tour of sky farming, which can even be done in one day.

Trotter's Boots.

Trotter Boots. And they have the worst drop rate of all movement speed items I'm aware of, including Strider Boots, from my personal experience.

For those of you that suggest ASA pants, since when is 8% greater or equal to 12%?

It's not the same, but any movement speed bonus over 0% has a major advantage: it allows you to outrun the majority of mobs. So while it's not the same, it can be used for a lot of the same things, especially during battle (kiting was mentioned, especially in combination with PDT-8% on them).

Not sure if it was mentioned since there's a lot to read here but.... Garuda got Fleet Wind....

Was mentioned a few posts above yours.

I still don't get why you need more movement speed?

It's about efficiency. Movement speed bonus saves you more than than you think, and not only by running. As I mentioned before, the "outrunning mobs" part makes it possible to run through almost any area without Sneak or Invisible, which saves you more time casting, especially in zones like Ro'Maeve where there's magic aggro all around, even right at the start, and additionally it saves you having Monomi and Tonko tools in your inventory, which is a major plus for me. It's also very useful for kiting, if there still are such battles. And ask a BLM75 what they could do back then with Herald's, you'll see quickly that the price tag is not just due to its rarity, but actually mainly due to its function. BLM with movement speed was godly back then.

And it's only Sneak and Invisible that got an upgrade if I recall correctly, Monomi and Tonko still only last 3min for Ichi and 5min for Ni, same for Spectral Jig, which is still retardedly short.

[Zarchery]

You know that if you could get +12% movement speed it would quickly become the new normal and you would again feel slow once you got used to it. I gotta ask, why 12%? Why not 24%, 36%, 48% or 200% or something?

So there is no solution to this non-problem.

[Ihnako]

It's about efficiency. Movement speed bonus saves you more than than you think, and not only by running. As I mentioned before, the "outrunning mobs" part makes it possible to run through almost any area without Sneak or Invisible, which saves you more time casting, especially in zones like Ro'Maeve where there's magic aggro all around, even right at the start, and additionally it saves you having Monomi and Tonko tools in your inventory, which is a major plus for me.

Do you know that there is something called "intentionaly" by design?
If you don't want to risk anything stay at your moghouse but don't complain that you have to use sneak/invis (spell/tools/powder/oils/JA) and that it will take inventory space and/or time.

shine

[Arcon]

Do you know that there is something called "intentionaly" by design?

Do you know what you asked?

I still don't get why you need more movement speed?

You listed reasons why movement speed doesn't help. I merely provided an explanation of why and how it can help. Make of it what you want.

[Soranika]

=\ Combat application of movement speed.... really? That's.... a rather improper argument to have for justification of how easy vs how difficult/expensive movement equipment are between jobs.

As I mentioned before, the "outrunning mobs" part makes it possible to run through almost any area without Sneak or Invisible, which saves you more time casting, especially in zones like Ro'Maeve where there's magic aggro all around, even right at the start, and additionally it saves you having Monomi and Tonko tools in your inventory, which is a major plus for me.

So you want to just bull through zones like Ro'Maeve to conserve a 3-4 seconds of casting time and/or 2 ninja tools (which is the equivilant of maybe 100 to 200 gil). You'd rather just ignore using natural tools abilities for avoiding aggro in the first place, as if sneak oils and invisi pots don't exist. It's also rather disturbing now that I remember how many people who've been playing almost as long as me not know you can overcast over invisible.
People diss Spectral Jig but all you have to do is manually remove the sneak effect before it wears and then reuse Spectral Jig without using invisible.

I can understand wanting to run faster, but just using it to bull through zones where you SHOULD be using invisible and/or sneak... can you say lazy? *Side note, if there's nin worried about inventory space and not carrying master ninja tools... I pity them.

It's also very useful for kiting

Jobs that are good at kite are quite capable within their means. Yet it's hard to deny that it wouldn't be useful. But then again, BLM aren't exactly hurting without these days. Sleep, Gravity and just a tiny bit of patience still goes a long way.

Call it for what it is, a side from a few jobs where movement speed is part of combat application (THF,DNC,RDM kiting large mobs for aoe leveling/farming) movement speed is mostly about convenience of travel and maybe the occasional fleeing of danger. I've lost count of how many times fleet wind from garuda help me escape the clutches of an UFO at Sea. Some things are, as Ihnako state, are intentional design.

[Arcon]

Oh lord. Before I start tearing you a new one, please read what I said before. I merely answered Ihnako's question about what the benefits are, which you obviously agree with, otherwise you would have countered my arguments, since you seem so intensely, yet inexplicably, against my opinion. Whether or not these benefits fit your agenda or not, or even the degree to which they benefit the player is irrelevant and everyone can judge that for themselves.

=\ Combat application of movement speed.... really? That's.... a rather improper argument to have for justification of how easy vs how difficult/expensive movement equipment are between jobs.

Why? You didn't really name any reasons against it, other than saying that kiters can do well without it too. If that's your idea of debunking a statement, you obviously are in no position to argue. Disregarding that, I never said combat application is what it should be judged by, I only said it had combat applications. You were supposed to provide your own interpretation, not try to read one into my comment.

So you want to just bull through zones like Ro'Maeve to conserve a 3-4 seconds of casting time and/or 2 ninja tools (which is the equivilant of maybe 100 to 200 gil). You'd rather just ignore using natural tools abilities for avoiding aggro in the first place, as if sneak oils and invisi pots don't exist. It's also rather disturbing now that I remember how many people who've been playing almost as long as me not know you can overcast over invisible.

Yes, I'd rather do that. It saves time and money and most of all it saves inventory space (and even more time not having to juggle inventory items around from the satchel and sack). Not sure what overcasting has to do with it, but I don't know anyone who doesn't know that, whether they are new or old. I use items when I have to, and I don't when I don't have to. Isn't that what progress in the game is for, to make things easier for us? Why should it be different for moving around and for combat? Two aspects of the same game. For that matter, why does movement speed exist in the first place? Why do we have Chocobos? Whatever happened to walking from Sandy to Jeuno? By your logic you're a lazy bum if you warp from one conflux to the other, because SE made perfectly good pathways to take through the zone, but noooo, someone like you has to come along and feel all special and entitled to faster modes of transportation.

People diss Spectral Jig but all you have to do is manually remove the sneak effect before it wears and then reuse Spectral Jig without using invisible.

Good advice, which also pretty much everyone knows, but which is actually applicable in some cases, aside from the fact that it can kill you in other cases. Still, it wasn't what I was referring to. I meant the duration of the Sneak/Invisible status gained from it, again in response to Ihnako, who stated that the duration has been adjusted for NIN and WHM. I simply stated that it was only changed for WHM, that NIN didn't profit from it, and mentioned DNC along with it, because it's another job-specific form of obtaining those buffs.

I can understand wanting to run faster, but just using it to bull through zones where you SHOULD be using invisible and/or sneak... can you say lazy? *Side note, if there's nin worried about inventory space and not carrying master ninja tools... I pity them.

Who says you should be using Invisible and/or Sneak? Aside from you, that is. Are we exploiting a game mechanic by running through it without it? What about Flee then? You can run through entire aggressive areas with Flee, often even avoiding Bind, Sleep and Stun, which is not the case with mere movement speed increase of 12% (or even 25% for that matter). You can do whatever the game allows you to. There is no rule for what should and shouldn't be done. You can call it lazy if you want, but by the same logic I can call you lazy for using any kind of warp, Chocobo or airship.

Jobs that are good at kite are quite capable within their means. Yet it's hard to deny that it wouldn't be useful. But then again, BLM aren't exactly hurting without these days. Sleep, Gravity and just a tiny bit of patience still goes a long way.

True, with EXP mobs. Nevermind the myriad of important mobs that have a complete immunity to Sleep, Gravity and most other useful debuffs, mobs that movement speed gives you an actual and important edge over. And sure, kiters can do without it, on most situations, but again, it makes it easier, and isn't that what everyone strives for in combat, making fights safer and easier? Maybe it's only a handful of times when it happens, but what if life or death really do depend on those 12%? I can't speak on that one from my own experience, but considering how many near death situations I've had myself, it's entirely plausible to think that those 12% could have made a difference in some fights over the decade of FFXI's lifetime.

Call it for what it is, a side from a few jobs where movement speed is part of combat application (THF,DNC,RDM kiting large mobs for aoe leveling/farming) movement speed is mostly about convenience of travel and maybe the occasional fleeing of danger. I've lost count of how many times fleet wind from garuda help me escape the clutches of an UFO at Sea. Some things are, as Ihnako state, are intentional design.

Isn't that pretty much what I've been saying? What exactly was your point? Sometimes you seem to want to say that movement speed is useless, other times you say it's awesome. I don't know what you're trying to say here. As for mob-gathering, that's a valid point that works on a lot more jobs than the ones you mentioned. Just last week I did that again on my BLM, and I can tell you now it would not have been possible without, at least not in the numbers that I pulled, because even with Phalanx and capped PDT they can still hit you for considerable damage. Considering that, movement speed saved me another hour or two by being able to gather a massive number of mobs compared to only a handful, without being in grave danger. And the same thing can be done on most jobs, which is very useful for trials for example.

Tl;dr, this game is a massive time sink. Always has been and always will be. Anything you can do to save your time, no matter how little, is a welcome addition in my opinion. And that's what it is, my opinion. There are definite applications of this status boost, be it within combat or outside of that, regardless of what you make of it.

[Concerned4FFxi]

The thing is, if you give jobs that use gaiters an alternative, then you are replacing one of the main reasons for tiamat. This is counter productive, that is why they added drops for jobs that needed access to movement speed but left the jobs that can use gaiters alone. If you don't like that, get the ASA pants with movement speed, its what i did.

[Soranika]

Oh lord. Before I start tearing you a new one, please read what I said before.

Stopped reading beyond that sentence so feel free to "tear" me a new one if you feel like it.

Look, the movement speed equipment is out there. There's no denying that some are harder to obtain than others, but still they exist. I'm all up for adjusting drop rate, but I don't buy any argument that's being spewed as being some justification that we all apparently must adhere to. I'll settle for the truth, "I want movement speed equipment out of convenience " Is that so hard? Sorry if I still have this mentality of "equipment like herald gaiters use to mean something."

[Zarchery]

They should give every job native access to Flee, Utsusemi, Sneak, Invisible, Gravity, Bind, Sleep, Sleega, Break, and Breakga. These are useful abilities. Why should I be discriminated against using them just because I didn't bother to level a job that could?

[Vold]

The thing is, if you give jobs that use gaiters an alternative, then you are replacing one of the main reasons for tiamat. This is counter productive, that is why they added drops for jobs that needed access to movement speed but left the jobs that can use gaiters alone. If you don't like that, get the ASA pants with movement speed, its what i did.

That's also why they left Strider Boots alon- oh wait. That's why they left Trotter boots alon- oh wait.

The fact that Fajin Boots exist completely nullifies your point. If SE is willing to release Fajin Boots they will do the same for the other jobs. There is no going back now and if they do decide to not give the other jobs more OPTIONS then that there is:

BULLSHIT!

Strider/Trotters were never what I call "easy" farming. For people that like to farm their items and not just buy everything in the universe, it is anything but easy to obtain. More options is always better. It relieves congestion and prevents low moral. There's always going to be a market for HG but newer movement speed items are inevitable.