It's the Little Things

[Zemarin]

I can't speak for all summoners but I'd be ecstatic if SE would just:

A) Let me Rest with Avatar out
B) Increase AoE Range of Avatars Favor and/or add secondary effects (like after a certain amount of time Titans DEF aura also mitigates physical dmg, Or Slows the Enemy)
C) Allow My Summons to SC again
D) Make Astral Flow Cost Less MP and Not Wear off As Soon as I use Odin/Alex
E) Not make me sub whm to use !!proc ws.

I get sad every time i see se make a big announcement for smn.. then they addd something thats supposed to bee awesome for smn... then it end up being gross/rarely useful. Also if they really expect me to do 8 elemental trials thats a shame... takes forever just to do 1

[Razushu]

I can't speak for all summoners but I'd be ecstatic if SE would just:

A) Let me Rest with Avatar out
B) Increase AoE Range of Avatars Favor and/or add secondary effects (like after a certain amount of time Titans DEF aura also mitigates physical dmg, Or Slows the Enemy)
C) Allow My Summons to SC again
D) Make Astral Flow Cost Less MP and Not Wear off As Soon as I use Odin/Alex
E) Not make me sub whm to use !!proc ws.

I get sad every time i see se make a big announcement for smn.. then they addd something thats supposed to bee awesome for smn... then it end up being gross/rarely useful. Also if they really expect me to do 8 elemental trials thats a shame... takes forever just to do 1

Honestly above any of these things, I'd prefer a fix to BP delay system, an increase in ward potency to make them more relevant, and an adjustment to Avatar melee strikes(so they can do more than tickle anything above an EM between Blood Pacts), in that order. Although I do like D), none of this stuff would be game changing, or overly useful for Summoner at this stage.

Don't get me wrong I'm not against these changes, if we got any of them down the line I'd be happy enough, but the job needs some big fixes before we can start worrying about the little stuff.

The staves are a pain but are worth trudging through the paths to get.

[Soranika]

Everything the both of you suggest would be loved, even if it aren't of them. Only thing I don't to much particularly agree with is lowering MP cost for astral flow. We do have various means of mp gain, but allowing us to keep our astral flow enabled after using Odin and Alexander would be nice. I hate to compare to two new 2hr abilities SCH have but... talk about increasing longevity of Embrava alone warrants a double take at astral flow only avatars.

[Zemarin]

Eh Idc if I can Regain MP after Astral Flow... what is the point of Astral Flow being a 2hr then if after it its going to leave you 100% defenseless. Convert and Slow Elemental Siphon is not enough... The only really potentially 2hr worth Avatar is Alexander

All Other Avatars do is BLM ja dmg every min while Astral Flow is up; that is not a Gift from the heavens.

They could remove the mp cost, remove bloodpact Timers during 2hr, or Allow me to use Odin/Alex more then once.

Idc how they do it or which they choose, Astral Flow as a 2hr is plain whack. When Odin Misses and steals my 3k~ mp that's a waste of my time. That Actually puts summoner under Cosair's 2hr cause Smn 2hr has the potential to do ABSOLUTLELY NOTHING for 3k~ mp, Astral Flow Makes OverDrive look good.

[Soranika]

You should never find yourself in a situation where you should encounter any danger or aggro and not have any method to restore MP immediately after using an astral flow ability or summon.

Only real justifiable adjustment needed astral flow blood pacts is the damage calculations. Odin needs an accuracy adjustment, though there's no real situation to use him in that you just can't use Diabolos' astral flow blood pact for, like behemoth mobs.

And... I don't really agree with using Odin or Alexander more than once in the 3 minutes of the same astral flow. In most cases, trying to summon something like Alexander haphazardly in a middle of a brawl when he's actually needed (AV or PW for example) you find yourself screwed when Alexander gets interrupted and desummon without using perfect Defense cause of getting hit with an AoE. Not to mention you only need 900mp to be effective on perfect defense to be effective. Currently only 190 MP minimum to use any astral flow blood pact, as amount of MP used doesn't actually affect damage.

It goes without saying though, most jobs right now have little to no use of their two hours. Considering how pointless Astral Flow is currently, until there is some adjustments to the abilities themselves, there's no point to do anything to it and just save Astral Flow for Alexander when needed..

[Zemarin]

I alll honesty I much just rather Astral Flow Not cost me any mp... it's pretty fine the way it is cept for that one aspect.

Alot Of Jobs have useful 2hrs. BLM SCH PLD THF SAM BLU have very epiclly good 2hrs WHM RDM DNC Tho very situational can actually Save lives, BRD 2hr lasting 3 mins + songs lasting long amount of tide turning.

You can disagree all you want but the facts are SMN's 2hr blows, that's not to say others don't but this minor Adjustment to Astral Flow could keep me from Second Guessing whether or not to use it, Odin is only good as an alpha strike, Alex is the only useful one out of the bunch and even still the fact you need almost 90% of ur mp to waste on him and he only lasts 90s don't make him all that he could be. All he really does is allow melee to like dd without fear for a whole 45~s, yes its good it gets it credit but its to be expected seeing how he turns you useless after using it.

The Potentially doing nothing Line doesn't only Refer to ODIN either. 3 Resisted Diamond Dusts is potentially N0 dmg , a missed Zantestuken or resisted one is low dmg for high mp, Alex only somewhat useful when NMs at critical HP unless u do nothing or are in Abyssea u will not have the full mp for full duration on top of that have to hope u dont get decapitated before getting it off.

I swear I think Alex is the only thing smn has to bring to the table... wel that and shock squall

[Soranika]

You're basically saying things a lot of us already know. I beg the differ on other two hours as generally they're ALL situational unless inside abyssea where you happen to be spamming Mighty Strikes on full cleaving, SCH in exp parties or whatever for their new two hour magic Embrava.

No one else is using their 2hrs so casually, if even at all at all and saving them for specific bosses that can't beat without them otherwise. SMN included. A lot of those jobs you mention aren't touching their 2hr job abilities at all lately and more than likely be ridiculed for it. Maybe I'm speaking out of bias of personal experience, but MP is can be replenished. There's no reason to use Astral Flow inside abyssea where you'd have this 3k. Outside when there's a realistically 1.7k - 2k MP pool for SMN, there is to many ways to refresh that "wasted" MP. My tool is the underrated Hvergelmir if I'm able to gain TP before it's needed (and generally am outside of doing BCNMs).

[solodragon1984]

we need our 2hr fixed cause on summoner i have about 1500 mp yet when i use astral flow all the mp is gone for only 2k dmg on a enemy with over 15-20k hp wow what's the deal with that cause when your losing all your MP for weak or a BP that might get resisted or flat out MISS ( happened to me with Dia.s 2hr BP Resisted for only 2 dmg) it should be changed to HALF your MP and not EVERYTHING >.< the effects of astral flow is to Allows avatars to use their full strength and how is that possible when the BP get resisted so your losing all your MP for a BP that might get resisted and then like someone said up above your left defenceless cause when a summoner is left with 0 MP how can they survive when their only Pet is killed and once when astral flow wears your MP is gone faster then "Candy set in front of a kid"

[Zemarin]

No one else is using their 2hrs so casually

What relevance does this have to do with a 2hr ability? How can you claim no one use their 2hr abilities as if you know everyone? I use my 2hr as i see fit, may that be once every 4hrs, once a day, or once every 2hrs.

. I beg the differ on other two hours as generally they're ALL situational

Technically everything in the game is situational. Cause I mean benediction is kinda useless to use on whm with full hp and mp on a pt with full hp. Also Invincible not to useful on casting mobs, and Perfect Dodge useless without any sort of hate. Just like provoke is usless to a Squishy job like rng or blm, and surely no drg will make much use of soul eater. JA's are situational regarless of their recast same as spells, and many other things in the game.

saving them for specific bosses that can't beat without them otherwise. SMN included

Nothing in abyssea needs smn 2hr and im pretty sure most things outside of it dont need it either, the whole point iof a 2hr is to generally save you from a bad situation so how would one do this when A) You BP can miss or be resisted and B) You lose 2-3kmp?

Your Resolve:

My tool is the underrated Hvergelmir

Ok cause you have the emp staff magically all smns *supposedly* have it just to make their 2hr not ridiculously stupid? How about Se just fixes the mp cost and not give us a single, yet asinine, reason to make that staff?

I'm appauld I'm even having this discussion. Your argument against it isn't even valid, I'm not outright desiring for Astral Flow to be a superior 2hr. It should not be a determent to the smn, No other 2hr cost the job anything EXCEPT ranger in which it costs the price of one arrow/bullet/bolt... WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. 2hrs are good at helping take on hard things yes summoners 2hr's mp drain doesn't help much at all if even, unless initially all the ppl fighting along the smn sucks. Then your point becomes valid

Lastly;
Who has the precognition to know exactly when it would be good to use alex, and have a 90%~ish full mp bar at that point unless they do nothing before hand?
Smn's 2hr is not good enough to be costing them a crap load of mp, that is all imma say.. I'm done with it. If you think it is awesome, thats fine, but I'm pretty sure most summoners will agree that it isn't.

[Soranika]

Christ... this will be my third time typing this cause Chrome wants to be stupid. x_x Here goes one last time.

What relevance does this have to do with a 2hr ability?

Did you bother to read the last statement of first paragraph before you hand picked that quote?

Technically everything in the game is situational.

Pardon my French but... no shit.

Nothing in abyssea needs smn 2hr and im pretty sure most things outside of it dont need it either, the whole point iof a 2hr is to generally save you from a bad situation so how would one do this when A) You BP can miss or be resisted and B) You lose 2-3kmp?

Is there an echo in here?
Side note, not all 2hr abilities are meant to "save you" from a bad situation, but to give you an upper hand. Astral Flow is NOT an ability you'd use to save yourself if you some how attract to much aggro from normal mobs or from NMs that may spawn in the area. If you happen to find yourself that unlucky, you're pretty much screwed to begin with. But if that's your choice, sure. There are revitalizers that you can utilize in abyssea or besieged if it's going on.

Your Resolve:

Before moving on, this got a giggle out of me. If MP management is such a concern here, it's a logical choice to go for hvergelmir. My sole purpose for having one IS for MP management when I'm subbing WHM. I have it, I find use for it, especially in the emp weapon or gfto mentality of people lately. Though I understand not every SMN have time or think they can justify getting one, which is okay. SMN have many ways to get moderate amounts of MP back. Elemental Siphon natively. Refresh, aspir, and convert if subbing /rdm. Sublimination if subbing /sch. Even Spirit Taker if they're feeling froggy and have the TP. Or... just use hi-elixirs and ethers.

Still it comes down to a single issue. If you're worried about MP management where it's actually dictating your next move as a smn, then you're clearly doing something wrong and need to go the right equipment because there's no reason for any smn to have to worry about it anymore. Especially if you're making it your main job.

let's continue

Ok cause you have the emp staff magically all smns *supposedly* have it just to make their 2hr not ridiculously stupid? How about Se just fixes the mp cost and not give us a single, yet asinine, reason to make that staff?

No, but what I, as well as others, been advocating and suggesting is a general damage adjustment to all blood pacts, astral flow included; in favor of what you suggest. Is that so much horrible? What good would come out of just reducing the mp cost of using astral flow blood pacts if they still suck?

I'm appauld I'm even having this discussion. Your argument against it isn't even valid, I'm not outright desiring for Astral Flow to be a superior 2hr.

How exactly is it invalid. I'm a smn. I use my astral flow abilities when needed. I know from experience that it's easy to recover from the MP lost with more than enough time to pop off another one on regular avatars or have mp back just as soon as using Alexander or Odin so I can send in another avatar with enough MP for Blood Pacts that matter, without the use of Myrkr. (Generally have natural refresh with all avatars now due to equipment, "eliminating" perpetuation cost.)

It should not be a determent to the smn

And yet it's not if you're properly geared and know what you're doing, as is with pretty much EVERY job when it comes to performing your task.

2hrs are good at helping take on hard things yes summoners 2hr's mp drain doesn't help much at all if even, unless initially all the ppl fighting along the smn sucks. Then your point becomes valid

No, it doesn't. You shouldn't be playing with people who suck. I don't.

Lastly;
Who has the precognition to know exactly when it would be good to use alex, and have a 90%~ish full mp bar at that point unless they do nothing before hand?

Wiki, BG, forums, FFXIAH, generally the community at large that's actually informed and any SMN who knows their role... Any one who actually takes the time to looks for advice on taking on specific NMs can set up a zerg strategy based on Alexander. It isn't hard and it doesn't take a genius or a psychic. You generally KNOW that you're going to use Alexander and should have 900mp ready for preemptive buffs before engaging the target.

If you think it is awesome, thats fine, but I'm pretty sure most summoners will agree that it isn't.

And there you have it, we don't all think alike. Don't be surprised that I don't agree with your suggestion, being main smn for several years now.