Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

[Insaniac]

I don't know whether he did or not, and word on the street is that he quit. If his sample size was that large and data collection was automated, I think it's fairly safe to say he probably didn't for most of it. Your two samples are almost exclusive, I think, in that the statistically exclude each other. So Sanction likely has an effect? Not something I would have predicted.

Yeah it was pretty surprising. I'll go without sanction next time and see if the drop rates go back down. If sanction does affect drop rates that opens a whole new can of worms. I'm gonna start a new thread for this stuff when I get my next batch of kills in since it seems like it's going to end up being more of an undertaking and is pretty far off topic.

[Laphine]

yeah let's go back to the whining! lol

[Arcon]

I am fairly sure that what people think are 'hidden procs' during WS are in fact procs off of melee attacks that don't show the added effect in the chat log because of a gear swap. Go try it out with an enspell on, swap gear and the effect doesn't show in the log. I'm pretty confident in saying that TH cannot proc on WS.

This sounds like a sound theory. I'll try to do some testing for this when possible.

Also, I'll start mass murdering Lesser Colibris now. I won't do any gear changes or weapon skills either, just to make sure. I'll do THF90/NIN45 for TH3, WAR90/THF45 for TH2 and WAR90/SAM45 for TH0. On WAR I'll be able to WS as well, so that'll be fun. Only TH1 might be tricky, which we wouldn't need, if it behaves as expected, but would still be nice to have a sample, in case it's something completely different. I might delevel WAR to 89, just to check it out, then I'll get back to you.

[Insaniac]

This sounds like a sound theory. I'll try to do some testing for this when possible.

Also, I'll start mass murdering Lesser Colibris now. I won't do any gear changes or weapon skills either, just to make sure. I'll do THF90/NIN45 for TH3, WAR90/THF45 for TH2 and WAR90/SAM45 for TH0. On WAR I'll be able to WS as well, so that'll be fun. Only TH1 might be tricky, which we wouldn't need, if it behaves as expected, but would still be nice to have a sample, in case it's something completely different. I might delevel WAR to 89, just to check it out, then I'll get back to you.

Started a new thread specifically for this TH testing. POST UR DATUHS HUR!

[Phen]

Okay, ill get a ton of flames but who cares. If they go towards hate control what are some exact things we would need?

-something that lowers the cap of hate for a party/alliance member to something like 80~90% of cap
-something like a 50% trick attack (doesnt game break because you are now behind the tank for conal etc)
-as stated before separated collab/accomp
-something like add 10~20% of your hate to someone else

that said i would prefer more DD/general utility updates since Dancer can utility and damage

[Karbuncle]

Okay, ill get a ton of flames but who cares. If they go towards hate control what are some exact things we would need?

-something that lowers the cap of hate for a party/alliance member to something like 80~90% of cap
-something like a 50% trick attack (doesnt game break because you are now behind the tank for conal etc)
-as stated before separated collab/accomp
-something like add 10~20% of your hate to someone else

that said i would prefer more DD/general utility updates since Dancer can utility and damage

If i could dig it up i would, But i posted a slew of ideas "in line" with the "vision" SE has for THF. Its somewhere in this thread not too far back :X

[Laphine]

the simplest hate management update i can think of is giving acco/cola 25' range and ally-wide scope. Doesn't even need to change their recasts. With this they would go from a nearly useless status to a somewhat useful one.

[Karbuncle]

I don't know, Expanding their targets from 5 people to 17 would hurt it too, because 1 THF across 17 people and a 1 minute timer for 25% of the Enmity is not going to be a lot of enmity, definitely not "controlling the tides of battle" as SE wants.

Also i found the suggestions i made earlier.

Reduce Steal Timer down to 1 minute timer. Have it inflict Damage, Modded by DEX, Similar to Jumps, and grant TP.

Reduce Despoil to 1 minute, and remove its shared timer, Also give Despoil 100% Chance to inflict an Ailment, Regardless of rather or not an item was stolen: Also add sub-category for it similar to Quick Draw/Sambas/etc, to allow THF to more accurately control the ability, as follows:

*Despoil: Head - Induces head related Ailments. Silence/Amnesia/Blind/M.Acc Down/M.atk down
*Despoil: Body - Induces Body related Ailments. Paralysis/Slow/Attack Down/Defense down
*Depoils: Legs - Induces Leg related Ailments. Gravity/Evasion Down/Accuracy down


Mug*
Reduce mug to 2min~3min timer or less. Add "Aura Steal" to mug. Allow Mugging of Cruor.
Allow mug to deal damage, Modded by your DEX, and grant TP. Similar to jumps.

New Job abilities:

Set up
*Enfeebling Magic Cast on the enemy after this JA is activated will gain a Boost in potency.
*3min Recast
*1min duration (or until next hit lands)
*25% boost to enfeebling magic potency/duration

Treachery
*Your next hit will increase the amount of Damage the Enemy takes
*5min Recast
*1min Duration (Or until you land a hit)
*Lasts 1 minutes.
*Enemy takes 5~10% more damage.

exposure
*Your next hit will decrease the enemies critical hit evasion
*3min recast
*1min Duration (or until next hit is landed)
*Lasts 2 minutes
*Decreases Their Crit.Evasion by 15%

disperse
*Sheds 25% of your current Enmity.
*1min recast
*Useful to use with Collaborator. Allows THF to truly control Enmity.

Frame
*Grants 25% of your enmity to a party member
*1min recast
*Could share timer with Disperse?
*Can only be used on someone who has hate on current enemy (I.E you couldn't use it on someone who hasn't acted on the mob, thus MPKing them technically)

Decrease Collab to 30 seconds, allow use on alliance(?)
Reduce Accompl to 2min allow use on alliance
Split their timers

Job Traits:

Tricks of the Trade:
Increases Steal, Despoil, Mug, and Lock-picking Success rate. Increases Gil/Cruor obtained through Mug
Lv.15/35/55/75/95
*Each Tier increases Success rate by 3% (total 15%). Increases Gil/Cruor obtained by 2% Per level.

Cunning
Increases the Potency of Despoil Debuffs
Lv.80/95
*Each Teir increases potency and/or Duration of Debuffs by 5%.

Guile
Increases Damage dealt and TP Gained through use of Steal and Mug.
Lv.30/50/70/90
*Each Stage enhances damage dealt by 3%, and TP Gained by 2.

True Stealth
Allows use of Hide on Any Monster.
Lv.75
*Allows you to hide from any enemy, However True Sight/Sound enemies you will not shed hate, You can still activate the JA (And as such use SA from any direction) but no enmity loss will be granted.

[Mirage]

I particularly like Disperse, Frame, Tricks of the trade, and True stealth. I also agree with reduction of steal and mug timers. In a game where you basically gain many times more gil per minute than mug grants you every 15 minutes, I can't see how having mug on a timer of less than 5 minutes would be a problem.

[Laphine]

I agree, but i think doing those 2 things would help quite a bit (but yeah, not a complete fix). Using RNG as an example. We are hardly in the same pt they are. In fights that RNG prowess is abused, RNGs will get hate. Against Odin, for one, i was mostly thf, and i was never in the RNGs party. I actually enjoyed it because if i were in the RNGs party i wouldn't be properly buffed. Even if i was in their party, chances are i wouldn't be to helpful at all, because they would be too far from Odin for colla to take effect.