80% haste for melee jobs is plain BS.

[Greatguardian]

I pull hate with 2 nukes on blm, that means blm is an amazing dd, amirite?

Best in the game, brah

[Glamdring]

Two hits for 30 damage do more damage than one hit for 50 damage, and nets you twice as much TP which doubles your WS damage (and you don't even WS in Haste, so you aren't losing damage per WS), and that's being super incredibly lenient towards the amount of damage/hit other stats would give you. It's not like players are abso-super-lutely gimp to the point where they're barely doing any damage without stacking attack/acc in slots where you can use Haste, or that Haste pieces don't have any other relevant stats on them (See: MNK AF3+2).

Edit: And using "Pulling hate" as a reference for how much damage you're dealing is so 2004 and completely wrong in every way imaginable, sorry.

Actually, considerring the number of players with just STUPID skill gaps that is exactly what I see happening.

Next, using the taking of hate as a measure of how my damage stands... isn't that PRECISELY why they say paladin is dead as a tank, they can't do damage so the jobs doing damage are taking the hate? Whiffing twice as fast is just as effective as single whiffing... i.e. not at all. When you only hit for 1-20 per hit you get to eat it's TP moves in greater numbers, enjoy yourself. The extra attack round given by the haste boost (hard to estimate how often it occurs because of differing weapon delays) may amount to nothing. In factm the only thing I see as always benefiting from haste is the Utsu recast timer. Other boosts may be much more effective, and your choices should reflect that in your character build of gear, atma, food and the like.

[rog]

Best in the game, brah

I think so. You silly melee dds cannot pull hate with only two of your normal attacks. Damn gimps.

[Greatguardian]

Actually, considerring the number of players with just STUPID skill gaps that is exactly what I see happening.

Next, using the taking of hate as a measure of how my damage stands... isn't that PRECISELY why they say paladin is dead as a tank, they can't do damage so the jobs doing damage are taking the hate? Whiffing twice as fast is just as effective as single whiffing... i.e. not at all. When you only hit for 1-20 per hit you get to eat it's TP moves in greater numbers, enjoy yourself. The extra attack round given by the haste boost (hard to estimate how often it occurs because of differing weapon delays) may amount to nothing. In factm the only thing I see as always benefiting from haste is the Utsu recast timer. Other boosts may be much more effective, and your choices should reflect that in your character build of gear, atma, food and the like.

You're so misinformed I really just don't know where to start. Let's divide things up point by point.

1) No, additional attack rounds have nothing to do with the delay of the weapon. All weapons attack twice as often at 50% Haste no matter what the delay is. All weapons attack three times as often at 66% Haste. All weapons attack four times as often at 75% Haste. All weapons attack five times as often at 80% Haste.

2) Who the hell cares about retards who don't have capped skill? Are you one of them? No? Then this argument obviously does not apply to you and your gear, so you should be using Haste.

3) Paladin does not deal as much damage as a normal DD. This is true, and a good portion of why it sucks.

3b) Unfortunately, that has nothing to do with Enmity. Paladin can cap hate just as easily as anyone else. The problem with Paladin is not, and has never been, about Enmity.

4) Who the hell whiffs on anything aside from Neo-Xarcabard content these days? Combat skills, Level Correction, and Atmas where Level Correction isn't giving you a huge boost pretty much auto-cap accuracy.

You'd have a point in theory if players were hitting ridiculously low Accuracy numbers (like sub-60%) and had absolutely no outside Haste. The former is most definitely not the case unless someone just seriously sucks hardcore, like trying very hard to suck as much as possible, so your argument is invalid.

[Mirage]

Just stopping by to say GG is totally right.

More on topic, 80% haste on melees isn't unfair to bst, simply because bst can actually you know, melee too. Sure, you won't be hitting as hard as a war or a nin or a thf, but the damage you're outputting is being supplemented by the damage your pet does. The very same pet you can give fulltime Invincible. Why not give them fulltime mighty strikes as well? Surely, that can't be any more BS than fulltime Invincible.

[rog]

When you only hit for 1-20 per hit you get to eat it's TP moves in greater numbers, enjoy yourself.

If you care that much about feeding tp, you do not use any melees, and instead stick with blms that can do 3-5k+ damage for 10 tp.

Oh, you say that is too slow?

[Mirage]

Also, hitting for 1-20 damage. Why are you meleeing on blm?

[rog]

Also, hitting for 1-20 damage. Why are you meleeing on blm?

uh...what?

[Glamdring]

Ugh, so much dumb in one post I can't believe it...

You do realize that it's possible to cap or near cap both gear Haste and Accuracy at the same time, then you fill in the remaining spots with attack and other stats and eating attack food. You claim that you are always the one getting hate, well I hate to break it to you, but the way that hate works in this game even some one who makes horrible gear decisions can end up hitting hate cap and getting the mobs attention. A person who actually knows what the fuck and gears in haste/acc will have the mobs attention far more often than you since once hate is capped the mob will attack whoever took the last action on it, and guess what, that will be the person who is hitting faster.

Please do these boards and the rest of us a favor and stop posting until you have a basic understanding of the game mechanics.

there are other stats in the game that are as relevant as attack speed, power, acc and the like, defensive skills and such. Often defense is as or more important than haste. Query: how much damage are you doing dead? How does haste prevent death? Only way I know of is Utsu, but /nin isn't the only character build used in game.

There are also many mobs with extremely heavy defense, Attack power is going to be more of a friend there, because the high def yields more 0 damage hits. Then there are mobs that evade like nobody's business (giant birds as an example), acc is your friend there. There are even mobs you only want to take with ranged weapons due to auras and the like, haste doesn't even work on ranged attack. For whatever reason, bard haste seems to only affect ninjitsu casting (not exactly fair to other casters but that's the way it is), so it's not really useful on mages unless they plan to melee as well.

Haste may be a decent default to build for, depending on your job, but you may get more milage out of other things. Galka pld may want MP, Taru may need HP or eva for survival, Mithra may need strength, pseudo casters may benefit more from magic acc/mab, bard want anything to speed casting but that's not haste-it's more a variant of fast cast, etc.

I've built my dnc to work on eva, not haste as an example. The Eva allows me to tank for 1. Hitting so I gain TP is more important than swinging often so I prefer acc to haste. I use a truckload of +store TP since TP fuels my abilities. And last but not least, haste LOWERS my samba effectiveness, meaning I drain for less. I haste samba situationally, when the mob is easy to hit and not doing much damage to my group, but if it's able to put out alot of damage I'll switch to drain (unless it's undead), if I'm working with alot of MP using DD (blue, dark, etc) I may use aspir samba, and if solo I'll use drain almost exclusively since it cuts the # of waltzes I need in half, letting me WS more often. That's just 1 job...

[Glamdring]

If you care that much about feeding tp, you do not use any melees, and instead stick with blms that can do 3-5k+ damage for 10 tp.

Oh, you say that is too slow?

I certainly don't say that, but the haste meisters do...