Unlocking SMN potential in abyssea.

[Dallas]

Amazing, you have to RUN UP TO THE FRONT LINE to use a BACK LINE ability. Let's see, you spent several seconds summoning Carby, waiting for him to find you, then spent several seconds runnning, waited for pathing again, used your BP, and healed for ZERO because the RDM casted Curaga 2 at 50% fast cast for less MP.

While you do that, I'll have Garuda out, meleeing for pettp, and have an instant BP ready ALREADY IN RANGE. Playing SMN is hard, it's a good thing you can always sub WHM and heal people AMIRITE?

[Cett]

Amazing, you have to RUN UP TO THE FRONT LINE to use a BACK LINE ability. Let's see, you spent several seconds summoning Carby, waiting for him to find you, then spent several seconds runnning, waited for pathing again, used your BP, and healed for ZERO because the RDM casted Curaga 2 at 50% fast cast for less MP.

While you do that, I'll have Garuda out, meleeing for pettp, and have an instant BP ready ALREADY IN RANGE. Playing SMN is hard, it's a good thing you can always sub WHM and heal people AMIRITE?

So when you have your awesome 45 second down time and AOE dmg kills your pet causing u to resummon on the front line then you die to more aoe, what do u do with /sam ? I'm certain you prolly won't have reraise on :P

Your scenario's are outrageous and borderline unnatural events. It is very possible for you or your pet to die in range of any NM that utilizes aoe abilities, and what about enfeebles? Without /whm you'll be pretty handicap from paralysis unless you chance Spring water and happen to have levi out at the time.

Just how far away from the mob do you have to be to be a back line job anyway ? Cause melee distance is usually 3 ~5 yalms , 9 yalms max for huge targets. Aoe's can hit up to 10~15' in most cases, and max cure distance is 20 yalms. Summoner's max distance on any bloodpact from a target is 15 ~16'ish.

[Korpg]

Amazing, you have to RUN UP TO THE FRONT LINE to use a BACK LINE ability. Let's see, you spent several seconds summoning Carby, waiting for him to find you, then spent several seconds runnning, waited for pathing again, used your BP, and healed for ZERO because the RDM casted Curaga 2 at 50% fast cast for less MP.

While you do that, I'll have Garuda out, meleeing for pettp, and have an instant BP ready ALREADY IN RANGE. Playing SMN is hard, it's a good thing you can always sub WHM and heal people AMIRITE?

k, I might use Carbuncle if I'm fighting a mob that is weak against light damage only (no other magical damage weakness, fully resisted on all other damage, you know the mobs I'm talking about I guess) I would have done what you said.

But, for everything else, I'm not a backup healer. I and my friends and shellmates know that SMN is not a good healer. Subpar RDM at best, but even then, RDMs aren't really main healers anymore either.

See, when I do SMN, I keep my avatar of choice out, wait until BP:R is up, BP, and let the damage ensue. You don't have to have the avatar melee to do some good damage (considering you have Caller's Pendant and/or regain atmas plus merited BPs).

See, if you can think about your job, instead of trying to be completely different to the point that you cause more harm than good, you might succeed. Besides, aren't you trying to melee with your Emp staff at the same time so you and your avatar does more damage than just having your avatar out meleeing? Please, correct me if I'm wrong that you don't do that.

[Dallas]

You don't have to have the avatar melee to do some good damage

You don't have to play SMN to its potential. Very true. There are people who are mediocre in every job. All I am doing is making sure everyone else knows the difference.

Cett, other DD use a reraise atma. Get to know some real DD.

[Korpg]

You don't have to play SMN to its potential. Very true. There are people who are mediocre in every job. All I am doing is making sure everyone else knows the difference.

Cett, other DD use a reraise atma. Get to know some real DD.

Sure, feed TP to the mob that does some damaging AoEs to the alliance, that will really get you invited for that fight again.

I mean, BP:Rs really give a lot of TP to the mob each time you cast it *sarcasm*

If you want to do it your way, by all means go ahead and do it. If you cause a few wipes because you were feeding the mob too much TP by both having your avatar and yourself meleeing, then go ahead. I'm not here to judge your style of play. That is your group's decision to make.

As for the whole "Get to know some real DD" comment, you know.....thats like shooting yourself in the foot because you saw something move near your feet.

[Vazerus]

I didn't have a chance to read the entire thread, but is this "melee smn" debate against NM or EXP targets?

Exp: Meleeing is fine, and you should probably do it. It's not like they are any threat to the alliance anyway, unless it's a doll using Meltdown... in which case a BLU or BLM better have stunned it or /kick.

NMs: Situational, but the pro-meleers are stating (from what I saw) that they would only do it it didn't have big AoE TP moves. I would expand that to "don't melee when there are damaging AoE's and/or lots of bad TP moves." Some NMs, as a tank, I wouldn't give a damn if people fed it TP. Harder NMs I pretty much order DD in general to stay off except WS, which would include SMN.

It's not hard to differentiate between when you can and cannot melee. If a SMN has the gear to melee in a situation where it is acceptable to, by all means kill the mob faster and keep your MP up with Spirit Taker/Hgingerdingawjonfajiosndf's new ws.

TL;DR: Korpg is right only when targets shouldn't be fed TP, but for 98% of the game that doesn't matter. Melee your hearts out on lesser NMs/EXP.

-If this post doesn't make sense it's because I'm on the brink of sleepiness, but the argument here seems a little silly.

[Dallas]

Even if you are only going in to WS with full 100% TP, you should still be meleeing on a nearby mob. Every other job does it, but for some reason SMN feel like it's their duty to suck.

[Korpg]

TL;DR: Korpg is right only when targets shouldn't be fed TP, but for 98% of the game that doesn't matter. Melee your hearts out on lesser NMs/EXP.

Actually, those type of NMs are the only ones I wouldn't feed TP to as a SMN. That and those who I am soloing on. Unless I want to try to proc blue.

Dallas wants to melee everything, or at least sounds like he wants to melee everything.

[Korpg]

Even if you are only going in to WS with full 100% TP, you should still be meleeing on a nearby mob. Every other job does it, but for some reason SMN feel like it's their duty to suck.

Can you solo an Even Match or higher mob just by yourself (in other words, while your avatar is busy TPing on the NM your group is currently fighting). Not everyone is going to want to fight the same mob as you, so don't expect others to come fight your mob for you.

Heck, DC and EP mobs might be a challange, SMNs have the defense of a sponge.

[Malamasala]

If you want to do it your way, by all means go ahead and do it. If you cause a few wipes because you were feeding the mob too much TP by both having your avatar and yourself meleeing, then go ahead. I'm not here to judge your style of play. That is your group's decision to make.

You know, if people were that afraid of TP, the ONLY parties you would see would be NIN + WHM duos. Adding any other job would make it "spam AOE moves" according to paranoid people.

I won't deny there are NMs like this, but it is roughly one per zone.