Enmity

[Zagen]

But I will just say this. Even taking into account high end atma, the monk may be able to put out more damage than a Paladin - but he will never be able to heal himself effectively. And I do think this advantage is overlooked by too many paladins, and does contribute to this self-loathing many paladins seem to have about their job. It is a real and significant advantage they have over other tanks with higher offenses - and does help balance it out.

Please read this: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ould-Read-This)

1 Cure IV when accounting for casting time (2.5 seconds) and casting/JA delay (2 seconds) will essentially cost you 2 attack rounds with Haste/Marches. If your PLD can swing for 150 damage or more you will generate more hate than a Cure IV for 450 cast on a 75 will do.

When you're with a group or just a WHM being able to heal yourself effectively as you keep calling it when you're the tank means nothing if it gets you less hate than your own DDing will get you because the more you cure yourself the sooner you're going to lose hate.

[Dale]

Please read this: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ould-Read-This)

1 Cure IV when accounting for casting time (2.5 seconds) and casting/JA delay (2 seconds) will essentially cost you 2 attack rounds with Haste/Marches. If your PLD can swing for 150 damage or more you will generate more hate than a Cure IV for 450 cast on a 75 will do.

When you're with a group or just a WHM being able to heal yourself effectively as you keep calling it when you're the tank means nothing if it gets you less hate than your own DDing will get you because the more you cure yourself the sooner you're going to lose hate.

Zagen, even in this rare situation you are theorizing where a paladin has all these buffs and great DD gear to where he could possibly do so much damage in 2.5 seconds that the enmity it would create would be more than a Cure 4, you are forgetting one important point. It isn't just creating enmity, it is also restoring your HP - which is what keeps you alive

It's worth doing. Use your heals. Otherwise you are better off just being a full-blown damage dealer.

[Zagen]

Zagen, even in this rare situation you are theorizing where a paladin has all these buffs and great DD gear to where he could possibly do so much damage in 2.5 seconds that the enmity it would create would be more than a Cure 4, you are forgetting one important point. It isn't just creating enmity, it is also restoring your HP - which is what keeps you alive

It's worth doing. Use your heals. Otherwise you are better off just being a full-blown damage dealer.

I'm theorizing that a PLD would have 3 buffs from 2 jobs and technically it could be 1 player on BRD/WHM doing the buffs. My PLD on a good amount of NMs in Abyssea can hit 150+ on normal hits that doesn't count crits which run 200+ and my PLD still needs work wen it comes to DD setup. That's just with Atma/Cruor/Food I don't get where you feel there are tons of buffs that are rare.

This shouldn't be a rare situation unless you're small manning something at which point a MNK/NIN/THF/DNC is a better tank than PLD because the damage dealt is more hate gained/regained than your cure IV. Keep in mind the fewer buffs you have the more the game currently favors MNK/DNC, NIN/DNC, DNC/NIN, and even THF/NIN depending on the NM.

When many NMs have TP moves that can do 1-2k+ your Cure IV isn't going to keep you alive or help counteract the damage you just took. The hate you gain/regain from meleeing instead of locking yourself in a Cure IV will help make sure your hate is above a WHM who just cast Cure VI on you to recover the HP you lost.

I've tanked many NMs on PLD, MNK, WAR, DNC, and even a few on BLU. All in hopes to have fun doing it while learning how each job can best tank in general because I do find it fun. PLD spamming cures is a dead idea and has been for a long time.

Edit: Food for thought with a 224 delay weapon and 0 Haste which is well frankly unheard of, 224 / 60 = 3.74 seconds since your Cure IV takes 4.5 seconds it still breaks 2 attack cycles on a sword since you can't have 25% of an attack cycle.

[Dale]

I'm theorizing that a PLD would have 3 buffs from 2 jobs and technically it could be 1 player on BRD/WHM doing the buffs. My PLD on a good amount of NMs in Abyssea can hit 150+ on normal hits that doesn't count crits which run 200+ and my PLD still needs work wen it comes to DD setup. That's just with Atma/Cruor/Food I don't get where you feel there are tons of buffs that are rare.

This shouldn't be a rare situation unless you're small manning something at which point a MNK/NIN/THF/DNC is a better tank than PLD because the damage dealt is more hate gained/regained than your cure IV. Keep in mind the fewer buffs you have the more the game currently favors MNK/DNC, NIN/DNC, DNC/NIN, and even THF/NIN depending on the NM.

When many NMs have TP moves that can do 1-2k+ your Cure IV isn't going to keep you alive or help counteract the damage you just took. The hate you gain/regain from meleeing instead of locking yourself in a Cure IV will help make sure your hate is above a WHM who just cast Cure VI on you to recover the HP you lost.

I've tanked many NMs on PLD, MNK, WAR, DNC, and even a few on BLU. All in hopes to have fun doing it while learning how each job can best tank in general because I do find it fun. PLD spamming cures is a dead idea and has been for a long time.

Well just the presence of a bard period makes it a rare occasion if you ask me.

And again with this "spamming cure" thing. I never know how to respond to this comment, but if you are suggesting Paladins using their heal spells is a dead idea and has been dead for a long time, maybe you should start waking it back up cause i coudn't do 99% of the things i do without it

[Zagen]

Well just the presence of a bard period makes it a rare occasion if you ask me.

And again with this "spamming cure" thing. I never know how to respond to this comment, but if you are suggesting Paladins using their heal spells is a dead idea and has been dead for a long time, maybe you should start waking it back up cause i coudn't do 99% of the things i do without it

Perfect example the Cockatrice NM in Abyssea - Altepa that drops PLD/RDM/THF/SAM Hand Seals I went MNK/DNC with a group that was MNK, WHM, THF, PLD, BLM. The PLD is the one that usually tanks a lot of NMs when we're holding them to get !!s we need. Also decently geared/skilled when it comes to a survivalist PLD (lacks a good DD set that is decent IMO) and the only time he tanked while using Cure IV as needed on my MNK was when cover was up. I tanked all of the fights many of them just by meleeing.

Can you explain what happened? I mean he was curing me the WHM was a Dualbox just there for Stona and "Oh Crap" moments.

Edit: The moment you cast 1 Cure IV you've lost more hate than I can gain from meleeing on PLD so Spamming can range from once in a while to every time it is ready to go. It sucks for hate gain period unless you bring a level 30 mule and cure cheat with them.

[Dale]

Perfect example the Cockatrice NM in Abyssea - Altepa that drops PLD/RDM/THF/SAM Hand Seals I went MNK/DNC with a group that was MNK, WHM, THF, PLD, BLM. The PLD is the one that usually tanks a lot of NMs when we're holding them to get !!s we need. Also decently geared/skilled when it comes to a survivalist PLD (lacks a good DD set that is decent IMO) and the only time he tanked while using Cure IV as needed on my MNK was when cover was up. I tanked all of the fights many of them just by meleeing.

Can you explain what happened? I mean he was curing me the WHM was a Dualbox just there for Stona and "Oh Crap" moments.

Edit: The moment you cast 1 Cure IV you've lost more hate than I can gain from meleeing on PLD so Spamming can range from once in a while to every time it is ready to go. It sucks for hate gain period unless you bring a level 30 mule and cure cheat with them.

Well i can't really comment on this, i've never fought the cockatrice NM thingy.

I did however fight some spider NM in abyssea that dropped a seal for ninja and dancer, and would have never been able to kill it had I not used my healing spells to keep myself alive

Look - if you dont' want to heal on your paladin and think it's a waste that's your business. I think it's silly and see no value in playing a Paladin if you aren't going to use your healing spells, but that is - afterall - just my opinion. There is turning into a dead end argument, case you are never going to convince me healing isn't worth doing and I guess i'm never going to convince you healing is worth doing.

Let's just agree to disagree on this one.

[Zagen]

Well i can't really comment on this, i've never fought the cockatrice NM thingy.

I did however fight some spider NM in abyssea that dropped a seal for ninja and dancer, and would have never been able to kill it had I not used my healing spells to keep myself alive

Look - if you dont' want to heal on your paladin and think it's a waste that's your business. I think it's silly and see no value in playing a Paladin if you aren't going to use your healing spells, but that is - afterall - just my opinion. There is turning into a dead end argument, case you are never going to convince me healing isn't worth doing and I guess i'm never going to convince you healing is worth doing.

Let's just agree to disagree on this one.

The topic is on Enmity >.> I'd hope you could see that I'm pointing out cures are pointless because they cause you to gain less hate than the melee swings you'd get to swing if you didn't cast cures. When you have support you shouldn't have moments where you need to cure much.

But as you said all you care about is using your cures because you want to regardless of how they affect Enmity and efficiency as a tank.