Effort to reward ratio for job point categories

[Archades]

lol maybe add items that grant a Job Point upon use, then make only available from certain events, like WKRs, but rare enough that most could rather exp for em faster but not enough that it would keep ppl away

[Afania]

What I disagree with is that blu does not have great job point categories. The best one of course is the increase in spell points. The cap was 60, but it will be 90 when the cap on job points increases. That is godly, a 50% increase. Increases in base damage of spells, percentage increases in skillchain damage, conserve MP when chain casting the most powerful blu spells, how are any of these not great?

I didn't say BLU has bad job point, I only said BLU isn't the only job with good job point, and IMO some job get better job points. That's just personal opinion sort of thing.

The CP/hr is actually better than the LP/hr we used to have at level 75, if you get a good party of course, if you solo it's about the same.

This info is incorrect, a good pt at 75 era farm about 15k~30k/hr. I can farm 15k CP solo in 15 min if I pop capacity ring, which is slightly faster than merit point. I've heard some AoE jobs like BLM or BLU sub COR can farm even more CP/hr.

With the current solo rate of 20k CP/hr it would take

Current solo rate for none DD job like BRD*.....Fixed for you.

The issue of CP/hr isn't the current solo rate, since BLU BLM COR can farm CP a lot faster than 20k/hr. Even without CP ring I can finish 20k solo in 30 min. The issue of CP/hr is the fact that you can't use CP on other jobs.

If you can use CP on other jobs, you can just play BLM BLU COR and farm CP solo, then use on other jobs like BRD WHM etc. With current system you can't aim for efficient method if you want efficient CP farm, that's the real issue.

If you think rates are fine and there's nothing wrong with the effort/reward ratio of the current system in 2014 FFXI then I don't know what else to tell you.

Considering the amount of ppl I know in this game already done with CP, I'd say the rates are fine. But the mechanic still needs a little fix.

[Sasaraixx]

You ignored all of Zhronne's other points. It takes more CP's for one JP when compared with LP's and it requires more JP for each category. When the cap is lifted, it is going to require a staggering amount of JPs.

And again, if your response is that because 3 jobs out of 22 are capable of getting CPs at a decent rate, then you are only proving the counter argument. Being able to gain capacity points on any job and using them as you wish would allow for flexibility, but it is not a solution when you are advocating that people use one of 3 jobs in order to do so.

Also, just because you and some of your friends have deciding to spend most of your time grinding job points does not mean that the system is fine.

I have bigger concerns with job points because increasingly it seems that balance issues are being addressed through job point categories and this goes against the initially stated purpose of this content. I also don't see how the team envisioned job points as something to be completed while doing other content when very little content gives you capacity points and the few that do give you very little.

I'm going to have to steal a line from Zhronne's post and say that if you think the current reward/effort ratio is fine, I don't know what else to tell you.

[Ramzi]

Thank you Zhronne for putting exactly what I was feeling into better words.

Thanks Grekumah for the response. It's much appreciated. My concern is centered around the staggering amount of time you would need to invest for just a small increase in performance. This has always been my beef with the JP system, and while some have bit the bullet and gone out and grinded for hours and hours (lots of BLU's I know) I just can't bring myself to do it. I have limited time, and I feel the cost to earn JP is too high- I'd rather do something FUN with my time in the game, not bring me back to 2006 as others have said. Times have changed, and this type of activity is no longer the norm.

Having said that, I realize that this is not an activity that's being forced on us (although you can argue that for BLU, it really is- any chance you get to do an endgame event, you will be expected to be 70/70 blu points) but if it's not going to benefit 75%+ of the population, why implement it at all? Just for the hardcore people who do nothing but play this all day?

I think we can start by A) allowing JP to be transferred to other jobs, and B) giving at least SOME JP for everything that gives exp. And why not include Abyssea? That's where most people exp, so why not include it. The rate of CP doesn't have to be proportionate to the rate of exp/limit, but some would be nice. If worms or raptors are checking EP or DC, give us say 30-50 CP per kill.

Lots of ways this can be tweaked so you feel a sense of reward without dedicating your life to it.

[Afania]

You ignored all of Zhronne's other points. It takes more CP's for one JP when compared with LP's and it requires more JP for each category. When the cap is lifted, it is going to require a staggering amount of JPs.

And again, if your response is that because 3 jobs out of 22 are capable of getting CPs at a decent rate, then you are only proving the counter argument. Being able to gain capacity points on any job and using them as you wish would allow for flexibility, but it is not a solution when you are advocating that people use one of 3 jobs in order to do so.

Try to grind merit point on BLM at 75 era, see if you can still argue that you grind merit point faster than CP grind now.

Also, just because you and some of your friends have deciding to spend most of your time grinding job points does not mean that the system is fine.

I have bigger concerns with job points because increasingly it seems that balance issues are being addressed through job point categories and this goes against the initially stated purpose of this content. I also don't see how the team envisioned job points as something to be completed while doing other content when very little content gives you capacity points and the few that do give you very little.

I'm going to have to steal a line from Zhronne's post and say that if you think the current reward/effort ratio is fine, I don't know what else to tell you.

Technically there will always be certain job that can grind CP faster than another, like how piercing DD grind merit point faster than BLM in lv 75 era. Try to grind merit point on BLM in 75 era, it's probably going to be slower than CP grind now, especially if you do dyna on BLM and lose EXP lol.

Whether there's a job restriction or not, certain job will always pull ahead, at least not having the restriction gives ppl one more option to grind CP faster, and also make it easier to make 6 man pt for it.

I'm not too worried about grinding 30 JP per upgrade when you reach 30 cap, cuz it's just the matter of time before SE make it faster to grind. I'm pretty sure JP being time consuming to grind at this point because it's a way for SE to slow the "upper tier" player down so they won't finish everything too fast. As more and more ppl reaching JP cap, they'd balance the content based on the fact that most ppl has full JP and make it faster to grind so new/returning player can catch up.

That's what they did with merit points and most of the game content and RME, it seems like it's their direction to maintain sub.

FYI, ppl finish most or all of the JP not because they "spend most of their time", but because they have nothing else to spend time on. Most of the time when I log on I go farm JP because I have nothing else to do anyways, and I only play around 6hr~8hr a week, even then I still feel like no content last long enough except JP farm. Last new content skirmish only last less than 1hr for me, like delve2/higher tier BCs. Delve2/higher tier BC is fun sure, but unless you're selling items it's pointless to do it more than once unless your stuff doesn't drop.

[Afania]

I'm going to have to steal a line from Zhronne's post and say that if you think the current reward/effort ratio is fine, I don't know what else to tell you.

Oh and btw, for those of you argue that's been saying "this is 2014 not 2006, thus the CP gain rate isn't fine", can you list one reason to support that the "2014 game pace" being better?

Currently it takes 20 min to obtain 100k plasm, which is 2hr of grind to obtain 1 R15 delve2 gears. If you make gil via other ways, it's possible to obtain R15 in less than 2hr.

Most BC D/VD has 1/2 or 1/3 of item drop rate for specific items, unless you're going with ppl lotting on the same stuff, it takes around 2hr of work to get the drop as well.

Which 2014 MMO give you best gears in game with 2hr of work?

60k CP solo= 2 JP/hr, which equals to 28hr of work for 10/10 per category. Since MMO is supposed to be played for hundreds and hundreds of hr, 28hr of work is MMO industry standard, 2hr of work isn't.

My argument is that 2hr to get the top gear is NOT fine in any sub based MMO, you can't argue that 28hr is too slow just because you've been comparing with 2hr of delve2.

My point stands, 28hr of work is just fine, this is based on numbers, and the fact that research shows that avg MMO player plays 14hr+ a week. If avg MMO player plays 5 min a day, 28hr of work may really seem too long, but currently it's not.

Out of most of the recent MMO I've played, FFXI's game pace is actually one of the fastest unless you go grind RME.

I'm sorry if you feel you don't know what to tell me because you don't care about numbers, only how you feel. I just feel every every player should have the opportunity to finish the category in 28hrs by job change, instead of having to spend double amount of time to grind them because they can't get JP on other jobs.

[Olor]

Oh and btw, for those of you argue that's been saying "this is 2014 not 2006, thus the CP gain rate isn't fine", can you list one reason to support that the "2014 game pace" is better?

Currently it takes 20 min to obtain 100k plasm, which is 2hr of grind to obtain 1 R15 delve2 gears.

For who? I've had KI for tojil for months and still don't have enough plasm to get my 119 sword. Just cause a very small group of people can do things that way doesn't mean the whole game should be built around them. Job points on a horrible grind only make the gaps between the players that have no problem getting plasm and delve 119 gear and normal casual players bigger. That in turn further fragments the playerbase. Its a bad strategy. Frankly - I'd rather the no-lifers be bored than the game return to "horrific-grind fantasy"

I used to be able to log in for a couple hours a few times a week and feel like I was making progress on my character. Now everything just feels slow and grindy and boring.

[Ramzi]

Afania what are you killing that you are getting 60k cp/hour. If it was truly that fast, I would do it, but it's not. Maybe I'm not killing high enough level mobs, but maybe you could share some advice on getting that kind of return on your time rather than just telling us you do it so the system works.

[Olor]

Afania what are you killing that you are getting 60k cp/hour. If it was truly that fast, I would do it, but it's not. Maybe I'm not killing high enough level mobs, but maybe you could share some advice on getting that kind of return on your time rather than just telling us you do it so the system works.

I'd second that. It took me hours to get a single point, with the ring on. I tried charming stuff in the gates and using it to kill other stuff but it was still way slower than just killing easier stuff in kahmir (and way more boring too).

[Ramzi]

I'd second that. It took me hours to get a single point, with the ring on. I tried charming stuff in the gates and using it to kill other stuff but it was still way slower than just killing easier stuff in kahmir (and way more boring too).

I can see how it would be slow with BST. The kill speed is just way too slow unless the mobs are way below your level. I think the optimum kill method is AOE cleaving with BLU, BLM, maybe RDM, WAR with Fell Cleave....

But that doesn't help people who want CP for jobs without these AOE abilities. Even with a fairly powered up BLU, I don't see anything even close to 60k/hour though. Again, maybe I'm killing the wrong mobs but then what are the right mobs?