Please nerf monk and samurai so other DDs can play

[Karbuncle]

Karbuncle: I really don't see how you can make BST more useful without MOAR NUMBERS. It's a DD. It can fill no other role. I asked before for it to be made into a tank - tanks are in a bad place but at least if BST was tailored to be a tank (with proper shields and proper shield skill, more ability to heal pet, more ability to shed hate onto pet or pull hate from pet, put hate from party members on pet etc) it could potentially have a party role other than "LOLPETBURN"

First off, Thank ya for the reply.

petburns are one of the things BST are good at, you choosing to ignore it or laugh at is isn't the devs problem. Pet Burns can accomplish a lot of endgame events, not all of them, but a lot, and its one of the few things BST can do really really well in... am I saying that means BST is fine how it is? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Anywho, how much damage is enough damage for the master? You want BST to do as much damage as SAM, 5% less, 3%? If so why bring a SAM when a BST does the same or slightly lesser damage and has a pet that can fight if the BST dies? It can also have the pet tank a second mob while the BST fights another, effectively letting it hold two enemies at once will little to no extra harm to the BST itself... a SAM can't, so if they're on par damage wise, why bring SAM?

You must be seeing the balance issues now, right? Simply making all DD "Samesies" doesn't fix the problem... more damage won't fix BSTs problem either... hell, GEO has recieved massive boosts, do you see shouts for GEO? rarely, I sure don't. Anywho, Yes, BST is a "DD", But its also a "Hybrid Pet job", which is the problem. You see it as a DD, Square Enix sees it as a pet job. I don't disagree BST is in a sad state, but what do you propose they do to make BSTs more "Damaging"? Better mods on their weaponskills? Native Dual wield?

The master needs to be made stronger regardless. It's the only way to avoid making pets overpowered. They also need to give pets real buffs - your example with COR buffs is laughable because you ignore that no real (non pet burn) party is ever gonna choose buffing small portion of one job's DD output (pet buff) over boosting every DD's output. That's asinine. It was a stupid idea to make those buffs the way they are - it's stupid to keep them that way.

Your opinion on pet roles goes into what I said about "Its how we play the jobs that make them gimp". IDK If pet rolls could be made any better or if they were intended for Pet-Burn parties, but they do help our pets more than one might think. Good or bad, IDK. Still if you wanna play that game, If a good BST partied with a good SAM, I can't say for certain their damage would be leagues apart.

If, for some reason, I had to say what would do the most for BST outside of MOAR numbers - it would be allowing pet to get all party buffs like any other party member, vastly reducing the damage it takes from AOEs when not the target of the boss, and significantly boosting its resistance to status ailments. Giving us a JA which would allow us to remove status ailments from our pets without the reward timer being used would also help.

I think all pets should receive party buffs period... its silly they don't. They're a part of the party right? We agree on that.

[Afania]

Lets play the number game! Here is the how the game work we take a Number ... Lets say 700,000. This being the Damage expected from every DD in a Delve (no these are not real numbers it is just an visual thing).
So For this Delve we will have 4 DDs; SAM, PUP, BST, and Blu, with a SCH & Bard for support.

SAM - Deals 700,000 using ws/normal hits
PUP - The player should deal at least 350,000 and their puppet (we'll say they use Sharpshot) the other 350,000 equaling 700,000
BST - Same as Pup but maybe more a 450,000/250,000 split or 250/450 depending on the pet they use
BLU - WS/Spells etc 700,000 total
SCH - we will say at least 150,000 in nukes while healing everyone
BRD - oh! Sings song, maybe melee a little (because it is an awesome battle bard) 150k in dmg but great support.

That would be a balance.

You didn't read my above post don't you? I see zero balance in those. If BLU can do 700,000 dmg like SAM AND erasga/stun/terror/AoE defense x2/AoE haste2/AOE sleep/def down/eva down/piercing/blunt/slashing dmg for kamir, it'd be hands down the most OP job in this game, making every other job irrelevant in this game.

It doesn't matter if your SAM or MNK can do 700,000 dmg or not, the benefit of erasga/stun/AoE defense buff and def/eva down downright outweigh the benefit of everything else SAM and MNK bring to the table. For gods sake 3 BLUs can rotate harden shell and have def+ 100% all the time.


I don't know how you get the idea that deal same dmg= balance. At least you know that BRD shouldn't do 700,000 so you only gave BRD 150k, so why can BLU PUP BST DNC get 700k? Doesn't make sense at all.

[Karbuncle]

You didn't read my above post don't you? I see zero balance in those. If BLU can do 700,000 dmg like SAM AND erasga/stun/terror/AoE defense x2/AoE haste2/AOE sleep/def down/eva down/piercing/blunt/slashing dmg for kamir, it'd be hands down the most OP job in this game, making every other job irrelevant in this game.

It doesn't matter if your SAM or MNK can do 700,000 dmg or not, the benefit of erasga/stun/AoE defense buff and def/eva down downright outweigh the benefit of everything else SAM and MNK bring to the table. For gods sake 3 BLUs can rotate harden shell and have def+ 100% all the time.


I don't know how you get the idea that deal same dmg= balance.

This^^^^^

What you said(rub) is nowhere near Balance. SAM has 1 thing going for it and 1 thing only... Damage, the the jobs you(rub) listed aside from SAM all have some utility... especially BLU, they have other things they bring to the table... its just... most people don't care about those other things :|

[Afania]

This^^^^^

What you said(rub) is nowhere near Balance. SAM has 1 thing going for it and 1 thing only... Damage, the the jobs you(rub) listed aside from SAM all have some utility... especially BLU, they have other things they bring to the table... its just... most people don't care about those other things :|

If they're game designers it'd be disaster :/ We'd see "/shout Yorcia delve do you need it. BLU BLU BLU BLU BRD WHM"

[Rubicant82]

its just... most people don't care about those other things :|

That is why I have the opinion that the same damage means balance, that comment right there ^

The player base could care less if your job has utility. Not a three to four song bard with Gilga horn? That's too bad, maybe next time.
Not a SAM with 119 & Fudo, good luck see you again!
Etc etc etc . . .


With out the ability to deal the right amount of damage your job will be ignored for end game content. That has been my experience to the fault that I ended up spending millions of gil and a lot of play time over the last year and some change of time get my PLD, SAM & RNG up to par so I could go to events. When I would much rather go on my BLM, SMN, BLU. . .
But because at least on the Carbuncle server it seems that unless you are a BRD(3/4 song), WHM, COR, SAM, PLD (AAs only), RNG you wont be doing delve anytime soon.

I can only speak from my point of view but it appears to me that unless you can sh*t our dmg you are not wanted. So in order to "fix" that all jobs that are considered DD should ultimately be able to do the same amount of damage.

[Olor]

If they're game designers it'd be disaster :/ We'd see "/shout Yorcia delve do you need it. BLU BLU BLU BLU BRD WHM"

Instead of MNK MNK SAM SAM WHM BRD?

Gee... what a huge difference, not.

As everyone has noted, no one cares about utility. Not a bit. TH maybe the only exception, and nowadays rarely. Either the drop rate is so good you don't need it, or so random no one trusts TH, or so low it appears to make zero discernible difference.

That's why I say that DD jobs should have no more than 10 per cent of their Damage output negated for their "utility." My ability as a bst to hold a fodder mob or w/e is not worth the HUGE loss in DPS I suffer for simply being a pet job. If it was, people would be interested in inviting BSTs. With 10 per cent difference MNK SAM and other pure DDs still stand out as DDs but it starts to seem more sane to look at utility of other jobs a bit more.

Also people act like light DDs don't sacrifice elsewhere than just pure damage - they also have less HP, more job ability delay, are harder to gear (especially BLU... omg), their gear is less tanky, etc.

[Mitruya]

This is an issue irrelevant to DDs. Everytime when ppl are /shouting for 3hr, they're /shouting for BRD WHM GEO.

It's also funny to see ppl want MORE DD jobs in this game when DD spot are extremely competitive.

My apologies, I seem to have left out details and ran my thoughts together. What I was saying is relative, because we didn't have the "right" DDs or the "best" DDs online at the time, so events got cancelled/never started.
I agree the DD spot is competitive, and you do see shouts for DDs, but it's usually for the same cookie-cutter set-up.
Also I was thinking of posts related to better balancing of the support jobs as well, so yes my sentiment may be a bit outside of the scope of this thread, but I kind of thought that was the whole point of everyone's argument - we want to fill parties and do content, working with whatever we have on hand at the time. I don't think many people mind job changing and filling different roles (that they find fun), but there seems to be a general frustration in the "MNK-only" or "RNG-only" or whatever mentality. Linkshells want a reason to exist and a way to include everybody, friends want a way to just jump in and play with whoever is online, etc. But mostly it feels lonely if you don't already have a popular job ready to go and you're not confident in leadership. You just see people split off and lowman things because it's such a hassle to incorporate lesser jobs/players.
Apologies for the slight derailment, it just seems like all the recent complaint threads are related.

[Olor]

My apologies, I seem to have left out details and ran my thoughts together. What I was saying is relative, because we didn't have the "right" DDs or the "best" DDs online at the time, so events got cancelled/never started.
I agree the DD spot is competitive, and you do see shouts for DDs, but it's usually for the same cookie-cutter set-up.
Also I was thinking of posts related to better balancing of the support jobs as well, so yes my sentiment may be a bit outside of the scope of this thread, but I kind of thought that was the whole point of everyone's argument - we want to fill parties and do content, working with whatever we have on hand at the time. I don't think many people mind job changing and filling different roles (that they find fun), but there seems to be a general frustration in the "MNK-only" or "RNG-only" or whatever mentality. Linkshells want a reason to exist and a way to include everybody, friends want a way to just jump in and play with whoever is online, etc. But mostly it feels lonely if you don't already have a popular job ready to go and you're not confident in leadership. You just see people split off and lowman things because it's such a hassle to incorporate lesser jobs/players.
Apologies for the slight derailment, it just seems like all the recent complaint threads are related.

Bolded part is so true and I don't think this is a derailment at all. The lack of job balance is sucking life out of the game. I really miss the way it was in voidwatch/abyssea days. Sure, my bst wasn't particularly useful then but it was competitive in dynamis (pre TH nerf and pre ilevel making THF dyna much easier) - I could help out in Abyssea (I could farm pop items etc while main group was taking down NMs for KIs), and my BLU was wanted for voidwatch. So, I actually had some variety.

I ended up not playing at all this weekend cause my choices were effectively "solo" or "play bard" neither of which I wanted to do. (I do love my bard! I just get tired of being support). I wanted to set up an alluvion run but not enough friends were interested and I was hoping to do it on BST. Since I have never done it I didn't feel comfortable shouting for pick ups, especially not on bst.

So, yeah, after getting a job point on BST and trying to get a spell on BLU and doing a wildskeeper on BST, I logged out... and had no desire to log back in... that's sad.

[Karbuncle]

If it makes you feel any better, I'm confident a good BST would be able to do Alluvian well... shit I've even brought a NIN lol... not a great one either, he was good, not superb.

[Rubicant82]

Skirmishes in general or at least the ones I have done seem to be all job friendly thank god.