Thank you for making both the grind and rewards of the Job Point system so terrible.

[Ravenmore]

The Ever Quest MMO model is long dead and as I have mention before one of the creators of EQ has failed several times to get kick starters to even half of the goal to develop such a game. As you most likely don't know FFXI started as nothing more then a EQ clone with the "Final Fantasy" brand and it's main niche was being a Final Fantasy MMO nothing else.The devs like all earlier MMOs used the grind to extend content while producing new content at a sail pace. Sorry you are one of the people that think mindless grinding=difficulty.

I don't think everything should be handed to plays and have defended the CoP requirements for reforging but that isn't mindless and at the very least you are still rewarded with a good story.

[Byrth]

I finished capping DNC this morning. I got over 5000 merits in the process.

BARANSU

[Damane]

I finished capping DNC this morning. I got over 5000 merits in the process.

BARANSU

i cant stop laughing lol

[Demonjustin]

Was responding to a comment made to me, not to the OP in that last quote of mine, but you knew that because you read it and quoted it didn't you?

Yes, I did, that's why I replied to what you said as you said it not as though it were a reply to the OP of that thread. The reply I made was meant to show how the OP of that thread did not fit into the category of players you had provided, which disproved your point that the OP was in fact one of those people. You gave them and their thread as an example even though they don't seem to fit the description you gave. I fully understand your post, I'm not sure you understood the context of mine however if you didn't realise my post was meant to disprove they're part of that subset of players rather than replying to a reply to that thread of some sort.

Btw, if you don't want to do the cont, then don't do it. But how about leaving it alone for those of us who actually do like to xp? Or does everything have to be in welfare queen mode?

If you like to XP then do XP. Making it more feasible for the majority of players to obtain these points won't magically make it so that you can't do XP parties anymore. It's actually quite the opposite, right now the interest in doing this is so low I probably couldn't find 6 people who want to farm these points out of all the people I know, and I know a lot of people. By making it more feasible it would actually get more interest, which means more parties overall and in the end if you legitimately enjoy doing XP parties it gives you a ton more people and groups to do it with.

You also seem to once again go with the whole 'you want everything handed to you and don't want to work for it' mentality but I fail to see how this and that are the same at all. Asking for something to be made less boring and needlessly grindy is far from lazy, I personally want to do this, I just won't subject myself to countless hours of XPing for it the way I need to now. I'm not saying I want to cap a category an hour, but the speed it's at now is slow enough it takes more than a day to get a category to cap, more than 24 hours of farming for that, that's stupid.

[predatory]

Yes, I did, that's why I replied to what you said as you said it not as though it were a reply to the OP of that thread. The reply I made was meant to show how the OP of that thread did not fit into the category of players you had provided, which disproved your point that the OP was in fact one of those people. You gave them and their thread as an example even though they don't seem to fit the description you gave. I fully understand your post, I'm not sure you understood the context of mine however if you didn't realise my post was meant to disprove they're part of that subset of players rather than replying to a reply to that thread of some sort.

If you like to XP then do XP. Making it more feasible for the majority of players to obtain these points won't magically make it so that you can't do XP parties anymore. It's actually quite the opposite, right now the interest in doing this is so low I probably couldn't find 6 people who want to farm these points out of all the people I know, and I know a lot of people. By making it more feasible it would actually get more interest, which means more parties overall and in the end if you legitimately enjoy doing XP parties it gives you a ton more people and groups to do it with.

You also seem to once again go with the whole 'you want everything handed to you and don't want to work for it' mentality but I fail to see how this and that are the same at all. Asking for something to be made less boring and needlessly grindy is far from lazy, I personally want to do this, I just won't subject myself to countless hours of XPing for it the way I need to now. I'm not saying I want to cap a category an hour, but the speed it's at now is slow enough it takes more than a day to get a category to cap, more than 24 hours of farming for that, that's stupid.

Lol, just lol

[Afania]

The Ever Quest MMO model is long dead and as I have mention before one of the creators of EQ has failed several times to get kick starters to even half of the goal to develop such a game. As you most likely don't know FFXI started as nothing more then a EQ clone with the "Final Fantasy" brand and it's main niche was being a Final Fantasy MMO nothing else.The devs like all earlier MMOs used the grind to extend content while producing new content at a sail pace. Sorry you are one of the people that think mindless grinding=difficulty.

I don't think everything should be handed to plays and have defended the CoP requirements for reforging but that isn't mindless and at the very least you are still rewarded with a good story.

Exactly which kick starter title is that? I've been doing research on KS for a while now and sometimes a failed campaign is not always because the idea fails, sometimes they failed because of failed marketing, or having unrealistic goal. I do know a lot of people still view EQ as the greatest MMO ever exist, just those people is enough to support another title similar to EQ but with minor twist/more streamlined.

I don't view "mindless grinding= difficulty", but I do think a goal takes longer to accomplish is not bad for MMO. Short term goals simply_just_doesn't_work in a PVE only themepark MMO, unless you have A LOT of short term goals or have very good PVP, or unless the title is sandbox. I also think content that require players to spend more time on making connections and build a stronger community is more beneficial to a MMO.

THAT is the real reason why older EQ/FFXI was considered a classic. It was never because it made players grind mindlessly for ages, but the fact that you need to make friends in the game to progress, and it kept the players together(or become player's 2nd life, if you view it in a more negative way).

[predatory]

Exactly which kick starter title is that? I've been doing research on KS for a while now and sometimes a failed campaign is not always because the idea fails, sometimes they failed because of failed marketing, or having unrealistic goal. I do know a lot of people still view EQ as the greatest MMO ever exist, just those people is enough to support another title similar to EQ but with minor twist/more streamlined.

I don't view "mindless grinding= difficulty", but I do think a goal takes longer to accomplish is not bad for MMO. Short term goals simply_just_doesn't_work in a PVE only themepark MMO, unless you have A LOT of short term goals or have very good PVP, or unless the title is sandbox. I also think content that require players to spend more time on making connections and build a stronger community is more beneficial to a MMO.

THAT is the real reason why older EQ/FFXI was considered a classic. It was never because it made players grind mindlessly for ages, but the fact that you need to make friends in the game to progress, and it kept the players together(or become player's 2nd life, if you view it in a more negative way).

The problem is this new brand of player wants everything really quick, and most of us old-timers left when or soon after they announced they were raising the level cap to 99 I've seen a couple of people from the old days, but they don't stay for long because they say the game has become a joke, and they're right. There are very few long term goals to achieve, people don't hang out like they used to because you used to level with the same people day in and day out, and beacame friends with them, sometiimes in real life, the endgame content is getting better thanks to them adding hardmode, but before that other than delve it was non-existent, everything is easy, nothing takes time anymoire, helll I came back from a break a few days ago and now theres a welfare map vendor in upper jeuno, (welfare because those used to be quested and coffer pop maps that now cost a few gil), at the rates its going someday im gonna be able to pay se 20 bux and get a level 99 char fully loaded with all the best gear. You people are taking all the challenges (time wise, and actual challenge wise )out of the game. and think you're making it better, but you're not, you're making it something a baby could play in its sleep.

Alfana good for you for seeing through this welfare queen mentality going on in this game. Need more people willing to tell the devs to stop this make it easy for lazy people crap

[Ravenmore]

Exactly which kick starter title is that? I've been doing research on KS for a while now and sometimes a failed campaign is not always because the idea fails, sometimes they failed because of failed marketing, or having unrealistic goal. I do know a lot of people still view EQ as the greatest MMO ever exist, just those people is enough to support another title similar to EQ but with minor twist/more streamlined.

I don't view "mindless grinding= difficulty", but I do think a goal takes longer to accomplish is not bad for MMO. Short term goals simply_just_doesn't_work in a PVE only themepark MMO, unless you have A LOT of short term goals or have very good PVP, or unless the title is sandbox. I also think content that require players to spend more time on making connections and build a stronger community is more beneficial to a MMO.

THAT is the real reason why older EQ/FFXI was considered a classic. It was never because it made players grind mindlessly for ages, but the fact that you need to make friends in the game to progress, and it kept the players together(or become player's 2nd life, if you view it in a more negative way).

Brad McQuaid is the dev from EQ asking for the money and "Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen" is the title and I was wrong he did get passed the half way mark by 7% and was seeking 800k to get started not so unrealistic little high but not by that much for a MMO. It really didn't bring much of anything new to the table and abut the nly stand out concept was visible loot but even that is kinda meh neat and not OMFG neat.

The thing is people only think they were having fun while the people around them seen the hell they really went though. A game based around long grinds will not fly in to days market. Sorry to the old fans that still have no life outside of a MMO and can devote the massive time investment to a game for little reward. Old timers are moving away as fast as new fans they have lives outside of their rooms now so while the no lifers will get everything really fast it will still take the people that don't spend more the a couple hours a day time to make progression. The majority of the potential MMO fan base is no longer like that and so Devs will move away from the old models.

[Olor]

Sorry to the old fans that still have no life outside of a MMO and can devote the massive time investment to a game for little reward. Old timers are moving away as fast as new fans they have lives outside of their rooms now so while the no lifers will get everything really fast it will still take the people that don't spend more the a couple hours a day time to make progression. The majority of the potential MMO fan base is no longer like that and so Devs will move away from the old models.

This pretty much. The generation that grew up on MMOs (and is likely still the biggest user group for them) is getting older. They are having kids. They have full time work.

People don't want to live their entire life on a game anymore. I personally love the changes they have made to XI. Even though there are some roadblocks I don't love, I do appreciate that every time I log on lately there is something I can work on that results in meaningful progress for my character. Once in awhile I have some time to binge on the game, and my character makes great strides. There is still a lot in this game that folks like me can't reach, but now that the power difference between people that have time to say, farm a mythic, and people like me has evened out significantly, I'm pretty okay with that.

I would not be here if it still took a year or more to level a job to cap.

[Afania]

Brad McQuaid is the dev from EQ asking for the money and "Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen" is the title and I was wrong he did get passed the half way mark by 7% and was seeking 800k to get started not so unrealistic little high but not by that much for a MMO. It really didn't bring much of anything new to the table and abut the nly stand out concept was visible loot but even that is kinda meh neat and not OMFG neat.

The thing is people only think they were having fun while the people around them seen the hell they really went though. A game based around long grinds will not fly in to days market. Sorry to the old fans that still have no life outside of a MMO and can devote the massive time investment to a game for little reward. Old timers are moving away as fast as new fans they have lives outside of their rooms now so while the no lifers will get everything really fast it will still take the people that don't spend more the a couple hours a day time to make progression. The majority of the potential MMO fan base is no longer like that and so Devs will move away from the old models.

800k is a lot as a KS project, but it is not a lot for a "spiritual successor" of a classic title, however, I do think this project had failed marketing. It just had a bad sales pitch.

I checked the project page. They failed to present their project with classic EQ "having an adventure in another world" feel to create some sort of nostalgic feel for the fans. I'm a big fan of EQ/FFXI design and WoW/FFXIV ARR hater, so technically, I'm his target audience if he wants to create EQ type of game. Even then his concept failed to make me interested.

Everything they said in the introduction video(I didn't watch every video, just the introduction video, but their introduction video made me NOT want to continue watching more because it's not interesting), can probably apply to almost every other MMO out there. Such as WoW, FFXIV ARR, or SWTOR.

They did said something about grouping, but almost every modern MMO has grouping, and group only content. However, having grouping content/force grouping content is NOT what makes FFXI/EQ different from WoW/SWTOR/ARR.

The entire project just feels like "Hey, I'm an EQ dev, I want to make my next MMO, you can do grouping and you can kill bosses, like every other MMO out there."

There is just something different in FFXI, that is more than grouping, grinding and killing bosses. Mostly the feel that you're living in a virtual world, a dangerous world full of adventure, and all the connections you built, that formed a cohesive community. And things you've done that actually feel connected to your avatar, not just another achievement point, but your OWN CHARACTER's story. You know, the immersion. I will be interested in a game like this, I wouldn't be interested in a game "with group content and you can kill bosses"


Some say what makes FFXI different from WoW/ARR is the grind, and "being time consuming". However, having to grind is not what makes it stand out. Tons of Korean MMO or Asian MMO made you grind as much as FFXI. None of those titles ever interest me. In fact back when I played WoW it was a lot of grind to endgame too, AND it was way less interesting than FFXI.

"Being time consuming" and not good for players with a family, is not FFXI's trademark. MMO genre has been more time consuming than other genre for ages. I know plenty of ppl played ARR 12hr a day. 6 million players forget their job and family to play WoW and earn raid gears, true story. MMO addiction became an issue after WoW era, when more people dropped out of school or lost job because of WoW. I know plenty of MMO addicts irl that just failed at everything, but not because of FFXI, but WoW or Lineage. "Being time consuming" is just, part of MMO that can't be avoided unless you don't play MMO at all. And that's not FFXI's fault, it's the the nature of this genre.


Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen project fail does not indicate building immersion in a MMO is a failed direction. It only indicate the sales pitch fails. I play MMORPG to escape from reality, to live a second life. I don't think this niche market is big at all, but it should be big enough to support $800k. The problem is, they failed to make their game appealing to this niche market. Do you think telling people "Hey, you can kill bosses and you have to group for some content in this MMO" makes a MMO good? No.

They have to tell me what I can do in the game that would give me a memorable adventure to live an interesting life as my character.

The thing is people only think they were having fun while the people around them seen the hell they really went though. A game based around long grinds will not fly in to days market. Sorry to the old fans that still have no life outside of a MMO and can devote the massive time investment to a game for little reward. Old timers are moving away as fast as new fans they have lives outside of their rooms now so while the no lifers will get everything really fast it will still take the people that don't spend more the a couple hours a day time to make progression. The majority of the potential MMO fan base is no longer like that and so Devs will move away from the old models.

Brad McQuaid said nothing about "Hey look, we're making this next MMO that will make you grind 10 months to get to endgame". He only said he wanted to make a generic, uninteresting MMO. That's why he failed. Nobody's interested in another MMO to make party and kill bosses.

What makes FFXI great is never just about the grind, but something a lot more complex, memorable and immersive than grind. I'm sorry if you failed to see this after years of playing. I've played majority of current-gen MMO including currently popular TESO, IMO FFXI is still the best RPG experience I ever have in my life.