I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

[Demonjustin]

I do still have interest in the game, of course. It's all a matter of when to come back...

I don't know if I'd be so keen on transferring servers. The price is high, but besides that, I'd basically be giving up on my friends ever coming back to the game too. They may or may not play again, but I can be hopeful, and completely abandoning them would hurt. ;|

I can understand that. Not sure how to really solve that sadly. Just feel as though this LS could make you feel more welcome and get ya into the game. I dunno, I would just hate to see someone who does have interest in the game be put off by things like this and not really play the game because of it, but if you ever do wanna take me up on the offer, the LS has been around for about 4 years already, so I'm sure it will still be here! :P

[Lithera]

Noo. They won't do it because the game if changed the way you wish for it to be changed to wouldn't give them a reason to do it period. Sure there still would be a nice ring at the end of it but why bother doing so if there is nothing else but that? Again I'm sorry if actually having to physically get some place takes more time than a few minutes isn't fun to you and a few others. It is literally the only expansion that was given or had other ways later added to it in order to cut down on travel time. Again condemning CoP because of only that one flaw is stupid and selfish.

I'm surprised you didn't name Drg, or nin in that part. Though cor? Really? Once you get all of the CSes inside of town it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to guess where pirates might be hanging out at. Oh I know it has to be Halvung, right? No? Damn it I was sure they would be having a ship right next to an active volcano. Because if someone who seriously wants to become a job they're going to give up while unlocking. We'll maybe if they're trying for Drg and can't get a gold hairpin, but that isn't as annoying as waiting for the damn egg to hatch. Again I'm sure most specially ToAU and post that job except sch would see a bigger f this shit with having to get mats for their AF and quit there than at the unlocking point.

[Raydeus]

The thing is, new players aren't going to want to do all that running, let alone try to figure it out or look it up on wikis.

And that's perfectly ok. They can play all the other games available out there.

Because in the end XI will always be an older game, made for an older time and an older audience. And trying to "modernize" too much will only water down the experience older players like while simply not being able to compete with games designed from the ground up for the more immediate WoW-like experience.

So I rather see the devs continue making the game more convenient for older players returning to the game rather than focusing on bringing brand new players in.

Which again, is what XIV is for.

I doubt your sincerity here.

Guess I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight just worrying about it.

[Crevox]

And that's perfectly ok. They can play all the other games available out there.

No, it's not. The game is a business. If you aren't attracting ANY new customers, or holding them for longer than one sub, there's a problem. And that problem needs to get solved if the game wants to survive.

So I rather see the devs continue making the game more convenient for older players returning to the game rather than focusing on bringing brand new players in.

Things like removing CoP as a requirement for getting the AF/relic armors doesn't hurt anyone, and yeah, there are older players that haven't yet completed CoP. In the end, everyone wins. Same thing can be said about unlocking all the jobs.

[Demonjustin]

I hate the fact that something like completing quests has now become a reason why people should go play another game when FFXI's combat and overall gameplay is fairly different from other games.

Personally, I love FFXI gameplay, I hate many things about the game outside of it though, such as the drop rates on items, the augmenting systems they use for things like Skirmish, or the travel that is literally the very reason I never completed WotG or my even my home nation's mission line. Yet, apparently due to how I feel about subjects such as CoP or travel I should go play WoW, or FFXIV, because even though their gameplay is different, and I may not like it as much as this, it's the only option I am apparently supposed to have. There seems to exist no middle ground, the fact these things need not be used by others and in general many changes asked for in these instances would have no negative effect on other players who are either finished with the content(CoP) or don't wish to use the features(travel reduction) but yet we are told if we want the changes we ask for, go play another game.

[Crevox]

I hate the fact that something like completing quests has now become a reason why people should go play another game when FFXI's combat and overall gameplay is fairly different from other games.

Personally, I love FFXI gameplay, I hate many things about the game outside of it though, such as the drop rates on items, the augmenting systems they use for things like Skirmish, or the travel that is literally the very reason I never completed WotG or my even my home nation's mission line. Yet, apparently due to how I feel about subjects such as CoP or travel I should go play WoW, or FFXIV, because even though their gameplay is different, and I may not like it as much as this, it's the only option I am apparently supposed to have. There seems to exist no middle ground, the fact these things need not be used by others and in general many changes asked for in these instances would have no negative effect on other players who are either finished with the content(CoP) or don't wish to use the features(travel reduction) but yet we are told if we want the changes we ask for, go play another game.

Pretty much agree. The combat, partying, strategy, jobs, and gameplay in this game is fantastic. The game just makes it so hard for you to experience in it in a meaningful way.

The thing is, all the quests have already been done in the past by anyone who is arguing against them... why does it matter? I feel like the game could really benefit from just being opened up a bit. There's a lot of potential here, a lot of great game that just sits there untouched. The combat and party play in this game continues to be fitting of FINAL FANTASY, the game just needs some tweaks to allow people to see that and get there before getting bogged down and quitting from the stuff in between.

There's a lot of easy ways to leave the game unharmed for those that enjoy the "old style" or how FFXI has been over the years, while also improving the experience for those that want to just enjoy the combat or whatever else.

[Xantavia]

No, it's not. The game is a business. If you aren't attracting ANY new customers, or holding them for longer than one sub, there's a problem. And that problem needs to get solved if the game wants to survive.

The danger is in alienating the base who like the way it is. Those of us who have been playing for years (and will likely be playing as long as there is a server up) obviously found something we like. Changing it up and making it easier and easier for people to max out on endgame stuff, what happens then?

For arguments sake, say they revamp the whole game and make it similar to WoW or FF14, two games that really do nothing for me. I drop my subscription and they lose $13 monthly as long as the game is around. You love the changes but max out on stuff after 3 months. Now do you keep playing (no net gain/loss because you are taking my place) or do you get bored because there is nothing left for you to do and find another game(which now has SE making $13 less than before).

You see it as necessary for the games continued survival. I see it as alienating the playerbase that likes the game and replacing them for those with no long term commitments and will jump ship as soon as the next shiny MMO comes along. I personally think they have been doing a good job striking a balance between new and old (RoE and trust come to mind). Invalidating content older than 2 months to please potential new players is not a good decision. I'm basing this on what happened before ilvl gear. Players wanted to be able to use their relics and mythics and SE eventually made a path to upgrade them. Players liked their sky gear and there was finally a change to augment it. Aldouin releases, ilvl gear is revealed, and the forums rioted. Suddenly everything, (except maybe black belt and d-ring) aren't worth it any more. That has been corrected over time, but it was rough and the only time I seriously debated quitting. It was the addition of RoE that got me to stay (besides pretending WotG was the last expansion).

[Xantavia]

The thing is, all the quests have already been done in the past by anyone who is arguing against them... why does it matter? I feel like the game could really benefit from just being opened up a bit. There's a lot of potential here, a lot of great game that just sits there untouched. The combat and party play in this game continues to be fitting of FINAL FANTASY, the game just needs some tweaks to allow people to see that and get there before getting bogged down and quitting from the stuff in between.

Could you clarify this a bit? I'm just reading a contradiction between untouched content and players getting bogged down by the stuff in between? Isn't the untouched stuff the between stuff? Based on what I interpret from your posts (and some other players too), the between stuff is everything not related to Aldouin endgame, and that is what you wish to skip. But doesn't that include the potential that you see in the game.

I hope I'm being clear here. Based on another thread, players dislike having to do CoP in order to reforge armor. So is CoP the between stuff that turns you and your friends off, or is CoP something that you see potential in and it is a shame that it sits there untouched? And if it has potential, why such an uproar and eagerness to skip it? Do you see what I'm getting at?

Unrelated, but if you do decide to come back, they announced that Cait Sith is coming, but will require all but completing WotG to acquire. IIRC you did CoP and ToAU enough to get Diablos/Odin/Alexander but weren't thrilled with the requirement. Just something to keep in mind.

[Demonjustin]

The danger is in alienating the base who like the way it is. Those of us who have been playing for years (and will likely be playing as long as there is a server up) obviously found something we like. Changing it up and making it easier and easier for people to max out on endgame stuff, what happens then?

If someone finished with CoP is going to quit because they made CoP a non-requirement for RF gear... I would be left speechless.

For arguments sake, say they revamp the whole game and make it similar to WoW or FF14

Woah, stopping you right there. A few changes to make the game easier to get into for new players is not even close to revamping the entire game into a casual game in any way. They can leave everything on the top half of the game how it is, making a smoother climb to that point is what's being asked for, I doubt many people have an issue with how the game is when it comes to the upper areas where other players actually are, it's getting to feel like you have access to be able to do everything that's the problem. What I mean is, when CoP is blocking you and someone says you have to go do it in order to upgrade your gear, or they tell you that you need to make a Relic that takes a couple months to do(how it used to be, not now necessarily) then you have some problems on your hands. That being said, when it comes to being told you need a 119 weapon to do Ark Angels because they are hard content, but once geared better you can do it, and the only thing standing between you and that is other content which is actually at your level(Yorcia, Outer Ra, Delve) then you're fine.

I drop my subscription and they lose $13 monthly as long as the game is around. You love the changes but max out on stuff after 3 months. Now do you keep playing (no net gain/loss because you are taking my place) or do you get bored because there is nothing left for you to do and find another game(which now has SE making $13 less than before).

If the changes caused you to leave, then you are correct, the game could lose money from the changes. But I refer you back to my original comment at the start of this post.

You see it as necessary for the games continued survival. I see it as alienating the playerbase that likes the game and replacing them for those with no long term commitments and will jump ship as soon as the next shiny MMO comes along. I personally think they have been doing a good job striking a balance between new and old (RoE and trust come to mind). Invalidating content older than 2 months to please potential new players is not a good decision. I'm basing this on what happened before ilvl gear. Players wanted to be able to use their relics and mythics and SE eventually made a path to upgrade them. Players liked their sky gear and there was finally a change to augment it. Aldouin releases, ilvl gear is revealed, and the forums rioted. Suddenly everything, (except maybe black belt and d-ring) aren't worth it any more. That has been corrected over time, but it was rough and the only time I seriously debated quitting. It was the addition of RoE that got me to stay (besides pretending WotG was the last expansion).

I can very easily say I think this is in that balance you said they struck. The last time CoP was thought of as a 'long term goal' was quite a while back... No one has suggested making anything since level 75 cap was broken irrelevant in this thread so far as I can tell. If anything, it seems to me people just keep going with the slippery slope argument to fight against anything changing old content to make it more easily accessible, or more specifically, that would make the new RF gear not require CoP completion since I think that is what sparked all this originally.

[Lithera]

Um WotG you can warp to almost any part if it that you need to go to. Only parts that have some travel time would be getting to both castles. Switching between time used to be a huge travel time eater, but with VW and now HP warps that's no longer a time sync. Again using the I can't be bothered to do something or I seriously am having no fun due to travel time is perhaps the weakest reason to change something. Also demonjustin I think you are not fully grasping how bad the changes Crevox is asking for is. Make the game even more of an easy mode like it seems he wants to and you will probably have a lot of older players quitting. A lot of us don't mind helping new people, but can you really say that you wouldn't mind taking maybe an hour to explain a lot of stuff before finally doing delve that took some time just to get people to someone who just started the game five days ago because they had all jobs unlocked got to 30 and burned to 99 within that time?

Aww don't make him go and want to quit before he even comes back.